Note: This interview in the Weekly Wisdom Series originally aired on August 21, 2023 as part of the University Innovation Alliance’s Innovating Together Podcast, appearing live on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. The transcript of this podcast episode is intended to serve as a guide to the entire conversation, and we encourage you to listen to this podcast episode. You can also access our summary, along with helpful links and audio from this episode.
Becky Takeda-Tinker:
I am always encouraging them to think at a higher level, envision what is possible, not what they are looking at operationally, but what is the vision of what they believe could be done, and then taking that vision and communicating it and collaborating to get to what can operationally be done, because you've got experts in the room that can do separate components, but if they don't know where they're going as a group of people that you're leading, you can't get there. And so, I think one of the hardest things for people to make that shift from maybe being a great manager, or a supervisor, or really just great expert, if you're going to lead people, there needs to be a compelling vision that's achievable.
Bridget Burns:
Welcome to Innovating Together, a podcast produced by the University Innovation Alliance. This is a podcast for busy people in higher education who are looking for the best ideas, inspiration, and leaders that will help you improve student success. I'm your host, Bridget Burns. Each week, I partner with a journalist to have a conversation with a sitting college president, chancellor, system leader, or someone in the broader ecosystem who's really an inspiring leader. And the goal is to have a conversation to distill their perspective and their insights gathered from their leadership journey. Our hope is that this is inspiring and gives you something to look forward to each week.
Welcome. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Start the Week with Wisdom. I'm your host, Bridget Burns with the University Innovation Alliance.
Candice Staples:
And I'm Candice Staples, also from the University Innovation Alliance, and I'm standing in for Doug from Inside Higher Ed. And this week's guest is Dr. Becky Takeda-Tinker, the president and CEO of Colorado State University Global, and she was previously the Chief Education and Operations Innovation Officer at the Colorado State University System.
Bridget Burns:
Welcome. Thanks so much for coming and joining us.
Becky Takeda-Tinker:
Thank you. Happy to be here.
Bridget Burns:
And you've had a very extensive career. You've got the corporate background. You also have the really important role about helping, especially with the COVID recovery and distributing all of those funds in the state of Colorado. You've been in Colorado for a while, and you've also been with CSU Global, and providing leadership in the online space, for quite some time. So, I feel like you have a lot to share with us. Welcome to the show, and we want to start off by first getting a sense of how you learned to lead. And I always find it's helpful to ask, did you learn more about leadership from a good example or a bad one? And if you could share a little bit about what you learned about leadership.
Becky Takeda-Tinker:
Thank you. That's a great question. I learned by watching all types of leaders on how they genuinely connect with others as human beings. Leadership is truly about human connectedness. No matter what your title is, if people aren't following you, you're not leading. So when I look at around the state in Colorado, the governor of Colorado, Jared Polis, with his executive directors, on how he shares what he would like to see the state accomplish and what that looks like, how it feels, and the success of that, then I look at the chancellor with our Board of Governors on how he reconciles their ideas with the system and institutional leadership so that we are united in our approaches to accomplishing our respective missions. I've even looked at and carefully watch our church ministers with their elders, just with us as regular members, and even with the kids, so that learning how they are personally engaging each person so that we are united in our work together. And I've even watched our HOA president in my personal neighborhood, seeing how he connects with the people in our subdivision that are unhappy and how he manages to make them feel included in solutions.
So, not manipulative, but very transparent and caring, and again, connecting with each individual person. So, I really believe that leaders of all types, if you can watch them and see how they interact with people and what that success looks like and lack thereof, that we can learn from it. So, I am constantly watching, and learning, and taking note, and improving even my leadership levels and how I am able to engage and interact with people. I want experiences to be positive ones.
Candice Staples:
What has been the most surprising thing about your career?
Becky Takeda-Tinker:
I would've never thought that everything that I've learned, done, experienced, even from my personal background, and then of course, professional life, has been able to be applied to my work at CSU Global and the CSU system. When they say that God works in mysterious ways, I can absolutely now attest to that, as I'm a firm believer. I've seen it play out in my own life. Ending up at CSU Global or being engaged with them in the early years with my father coming out of World War II and in the internment camp, they had no money, and so he ended up putting himself through college, first in his family to go to college, working three jobs. I learned this story when I was a kid. He never really could stay in class. He would drop off his homework, stay for tests, and then drive off to his next job so that he could pay for college and actually graduate as an electrical engineer, ironically, and did that successfully.
And when I learned about CSU Global and the opportunity that it was working to provide for non-traditional adult and working students, really different, fully online, available-anytime-anywhere-type services, that the vision of it really then reconciled with what I had heard my father speak about. So, from those early childhood years up through all my turnaround work, I was in private equity. I worked in seven different industries doing turnaround work, second stage to get them to a transaction for the partners that I would report in to. But that type of work, having to pull people together where they maybe weren't successful or the organization wasn't where it needed to be, and getting everybody united and moving forward, coming into CSU Global before it had launched, trying to help it get launched, and then eventually help it get independently accredited as the first in the nation to be a state nonprofit institution, to get that independent accreditation was just significant.
So how ironic it is that all of that work from my childhood years all the way up into my professional life in private equity before I stepped down from that, how it all came into play to do the work that I'm able to do for CSU Global, the CSU system in Colorado. And the CSU system is the state's land grant from the Morrill Act of 1862, which means we have this obligation and duty to ensure that the state has the educated, trained workers it needs for economic development, growth, and stability.
And so, again, my passion about helping people get to where they need to go for their own professional and personal success all has aligned with CSU Global. Who would've ever thought coming from my background into private equity and then into Colorado and ending up in a state nonprofit system would have evolved to this now where I'm at, again, being the president of CSU Global. So, you'll never know where it all goes to, but I don't believe, and I say this all the time to my team, there is nothing as wasted hard work. It will all apply to something. We just don't know where and when.
Bridget Burns:
So I'm curious about the online piece. On one hand, I have little two questions, so I'm cheating. I want to know, have you ever taken online classes? Because I think that's super interesting, because I've met some online leaders who have dabbled only after taking the role. And the other is, I'm just wondering if you think that it takes a different type of leadership style to lead an online institution versus a brick-and-mortar institution? Because I think you're probably making different decisions. You probably need to be a little bit different in terms of how much you communicate and your style. So, I just want to hear your perspective on that.
Becky Takeda-Tinker:
Yeah, that is a great question, or questions. So, my background, a lot of the turnaround work that I did, I worked on USRobotics, smart modular technologies. We're tech-based, so I'm very comfortable in the sector, but we know that technology works at speed. We think about our phones, right? It seems like every other week, if not day, I'm getting updates on my phone. It's constantly evolving, highly dynamic. And so, to lead an online or technology-driven institution means that people's expectations, number one, of responsiveness, questions, needs, it's got to be in that real-time environment. There is no waiting around, there's no “I'll get back to you next week.” We try to get back to students within 24 hours, because in the world of online, that can even seem long. So, if we can get back to them same day, in a couple of hours, that's what we're doing.
Because, again, the experience with technology is that there's this very responsive, always-on type expectation, and that is how we all individually operate, even with our cell phones. So, if you take that experience and then apply it to learning, and then you think about our type of learners who are non-traditional, very busy lives, juggling work, family responsibilities, community engagements, there's a lot going on in their lives. And so, they need the level of responsiveness that fits within their life. And that is one of the reasons that they're not only online, because they can study and have access to resources anywhere, anytime, but also because they need that speed and responsiveness. It's very consumer-driven in a way, in terms of the responsiveness that we have to have as an online, technology-driven institution.
And I have great friends at the CSU system and our more traditional on-ground campuses, and that is just a different pace, but it's expected there, versus if you're online and you're a student and you want an answer and you've texted or chatted somebody from the institution, you're expecting an answer, if not immediately, certainly no later than the end of the day if possible. It is a different environment, and it keeps you hopping. And because of technology and how dynamic it is, it's always evolving. So, we're always, even as staff and faculty learning and trying to keep up and working with the students, who are also encountering new things in industry, which with COVID and everything being technology-grounded now in that industry's going to be moving a lot faster than I had originally thought it would, given where we were three years ago -- and we're here. The speed of industry is definitely faster and only going to get faster. When we think about AI in particular, that is going to drive learning at a hyper speed, and we're going to have to all try to keep up.
Ray Magliozzi:
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Candice Staples:
So, you mentioned fake leaders and bringing together multiple stakeholders. And looking at your bio, that included K-12, military. So, with these different industries and your tech background, how do you shape your language? How do you bring together the partners? How do you create the buy-in to CSU Global?
Becky Takeda-Tinker:
Yeah. Well, even in the early days when online really wasn't widely accepted, it was about proving it out. We track data at every level so that we understand what the students are learning, how often they're in the classroom, what their responses are in terms of the assignments, and how they're doing with the assignments in the classes. We listen to our faculty, and when we think about the different industries, we are really partnering with them. We have aligned with industry certification exams. A lot of our courses, we actually have that up on our website now, but specific courses leading to industry certification examinations, groups of courses leading to industry-recognized certifications. Being as an ROI for our students, our mission is workplace and professional success for our students.
And so, in order to help ensure that the tracking of data, understanding where they are at every level, where they go past graduation, and how they're doing, and now with industry certifications so widely available and being sought after by employers, that alignment, that we know we're equipping them to be ready for job opportunities, promotions, and new careers, should they decide to go into that. Being really key and making sure that they stack into longer-term degrees if that's what they want to do, but for sure, whatever it is they're taking with us, we want to make sure that they're walking away immediately with something that they've learned.
We love it. I see it in the classrooms all the time, where they'll learn something in week one and then they're back reporting week two, how they applied what they learned in terms of theory or a technique, an accounting solution, and the response from their peers and their bosses. And that is wonderful, because then I know that the work that we are doing, because it's hard work, we also don't receive state funds, so we have to operate very leanly, and we do that, but when the students are coming back and telling us that they are moving themselves forward and how proud they are of what they've learned, that is the reward. And I just enjoy that so much that the work that we are doing is real, and has a measurable impact, and we have data to prove it. So that is how we roll along with that type of work.
Bridget Burns:
I guess I want to shift to your specific style of leadership, and the way that you choose to show up, and how you lead your teams. And I guess the first question I want to ask is actually around the hardest thing that you've had to do as a leader. I feel like that really is the most illuminating in terms of style, but it also just gives people a sense of the hard things that you have to do as a leader. So, I'm just wondering if you can share, looking back, you've had a very extensive career. I'm sure you've had lots of hard things to do. Is there one thing that was particularly the hardest that you learned the most from?
Becky Takeda-Tinker:
I look to ensure that we're all accountable. So, it's not necessarily hard, but it can be exhausting to always ask people what they can do, ask people what they want to do, what they can get to, and then hold them accountable so that the interactions are genuine. If you haven't figured it out already, I'm pretty candid. I don't mince words. And so, when I have those ongoing conversations, even with the current CSU Global team that I've come back to, I'm very much about accountability, and holding them accountable to what they commit to, holding myself accountable to what I say I will do, so that we, particularly as a nonprofit state institution, ensure integrity from all sides.
In fact, we were on with one of our lenders that works with our engagement team yesterday, and the owner of the company or CEO of the company was there, and I was very direct in terms of they contracted, they put together their work order and what they could achieve and they're not getting there, and they didn't really have any reasons why. And I was pretty clear this is what they committed to. They need to let me know why they aren't getting to what they need or what they had committed to and how we can help all get there. We are a team, whether you're an internal person, an external person, stakeholders in state nonprofit institutions, trying to move people forward for workplace success and for state and national economic development and stability, we're all in this together. And so that accountability can get boring, but it's got to be done. And I do it regularly because it helps ensure the integrity from everybody. And this is what we do as a state nonprofit.
And I've been in private equity, so hey, I know that world, too. And when I would work with teams, even in the companies that we were working to turn around and get to a transaction level, I was always very transparent and asked them what they could do and then held them accountable. And I think measuring what you think you can do to what you actually can do can be illuminating to individuals themselves so that they're not overcommitting and overpromising, and they can be more genuine in what they can actually achieve, so that we can all get to success. And that is the work that we do here with data-driven outcomes, and facing the realities of our own human limitations is part of that work.
Bridget Burns:
I like the simplicity of that example because, honestly, it's very relatable that it's human nature to want to be liked. And it is the most basic thing. We all want to fit in. We all want people like us, especially women, right? We've been socialized as such. And so, that is actually the example of leadership, is that you have to be willing to not be liked because you have to say the thing. And that is a sacrifice because it is going counter to our most basic training and socialization. That's a great example. And it is the hard thing, but it is the right thing. So that's great.
Candice Staples:
What advice do you find yourself giving to younger people coming up in leadership roles most often?
Becky Takeda-Tinker:
That is a good question as well. For leaders who are interested in innovative leadership, I'm always encouraging them to think at a higher level. Envision what is possible, not what they are looking at operationally, but what is the vision of what they believe could be done? And then taking that vision, and communicating it and collaborating to get to what can operationally be done, because you've got experts in the room that can do separate components, but if they don't know where they're going as a group of people that you're leading, you can't get there. And so, I think one of the hardest things for people to make that shift from maybe being a great manager or supervisor or really just great expert, if you're going to lead people, there needs to be a compelling vision that's achievable. And in order for it to be achievable, you've got to then circle back and collaborate so that everybody can contribute to how we can actually get to that vision.
And your vision may or may not really shift. Usually, I find that it doesn't. It's high enough and big enough that it is where we're headed, and this is the goal. And then, when everybody can contribute to how we're going to get there, they're included, and they feel heard, and they understand their role so that they too can contribute at an operational level and through their own communication to their peers and people that work for them on where it is we are going and what those people's roles could all be. And that communication is so vital.
And then I also share with leaders, it's your job if you're going to lead an initiative, you're taking risk. At the highest level, I take all the risk and all the blame if something goes terribly wrong, but regrouping when you're not getting to the goals and saying, we're not doing it, or I thought we could do it. We're clearly not there yet. Now we're going to circle back, and we're going to reiterate this and try it again, and see if we can't get there maybe a slightly different way. And circling the wagons and getting everybody working together again on plan B, plan C, plan D, so that we can actually still get to the bigger vision. If everybody really bought into that and said, “Yeah, this is where we need to go, this is what will help our stakeholders, our students,” in the case of CSU Global, whatever it is we're doing as leaders, that if it's been identified and everybody's bought in, then it's just a matter of figuring out how we're going to get there. And sometimes, again, people overestimate their ability or thought it was going to be easier. And when it comes down to it, it's not. That's okay. As long as you can quickly regroup and try again to get there.
And if it actually is a bad move and it's a failure, the leader at the highest level has got to take that ownership. It is his or her fault if there's going to be blame. I try so hard to let people know that we've got to try new things. And particularly with every industry now being driven by technology and the speed of change, we've got to try new ways to help people learn quickly and be upskilled in a way that's beneficial to them. Not everything's going to be a huge success, and it’s no one's fault, but it's absolutely incumbent upon us to continue to keep moving and regrouping and looking at the data and making our way to the actual goal that we had intended, and making sure, again, through a data, because it's very objective, are we there yet or have we exceeded, or are we still short? And just continuing that work. It takes so much grit and tenacity to lead in today's world, and it's not going to get easier with the increasing speed driven, again, by technology into the future.
Bridget Burns:
I can definitely see the private equity background and that you've worked, and observed, and evaluated a multitude of companies, and you have that outside perspective, but then you're inside your own thing. So, it's very useful. I'm sure you've been given a lot of advice, but I'm curious about what advice has served you personally best in your career? Is there any one piece that really stood out that you can share with us, and who gave it to you?
Becky Takeda-Tinker:
It was my father. From the time I was young, he always said, "Do what makes you happy." And I grew up in a Japanese family. You can imagine that pressure and all that. But he was always the one to say, "If it's not making you happy, why are you doing it?" And I have only done work that I have enjoyed. So, helping people advance themselves to their goals, even when I was in private equity, I love that work because when we would do the transaction, all the employees could benefit, and they could send their kids to school or college, they could take that vacation they never got to take. So, helping them get to their personal goals just made me so happy. When I think about the work I do at CSU Global or at the CSU system, helping even one student at a time get to a better professional position, or again, when I read on the discussion boards what they're doing with the information they're learning from us, it just makes me so happy that we are really helping people.
And because I know that that's what makes me happy, that's where I spend my time. And my dad was right, because my life has been never easy, but always enjoyable. And I love the work that I do. I am so grateful for the people that I get to work with, both at the system and at CSU Global and the state of Colorado, and really around the world and military. I got back from a National Defense forum that I got invited to attend, and understanding what's going on in their world and how we could help them help ourselves when we think about national defense was just such an enjoyable experience. Exhausting as it may have been, to then know that I have a capacity to help and because that makes me happy. I have had a very good life, and I'm just so grateful for that.
And I encourage everybody to do what makes them happy, because life is too short. And we spend, especially if you're talking about work, we spend way too much time at work, even in today's post-COVID world, that if it's not something that brings you joy, there are way too many other things that you could be doing. And I would be happy to help you get there. So you can link me in and I will help, but I work with individuals who I find in random places who are looking for support, and I am happy to step in there and connect them and do whatever it is I can, because I enjoy it. And it does really move our world forward in a positive way. And I think all of us want to ensure we have a better world than when we came. And it's just great work. So grateful for my dad, who passed away in 2021, but…
Bridget Burns:
I'm sorry.
Becky Takeda-Tinker:
... every day I wake up, and I think, “That man sure knew what he was talking about.”
Bridget Burns:
Yeah, that's great advice, and that's great advice to have as a North Star. So, I can attest that you -- I can see that you're a great mentor, because you already tried to recruit Dr. Candice Staples and become president. She's currently a senior director of Alliance's engagement, but I love that you're already out here recruiting, and I do think that she would make a great president, but hopefully not today. Just, she's running some important stuff for us. Well, thank you so much. It's been really a wonderful getting to know you and learning a bit more about your perspective and your journey, and we just have really appreciated that. So, thank you for joining us, and Dr. Staples, thank you for being an excellent co-host. I think that Doug Lederman should be nervous, nervous about his job. Just kidding. All right, you all at home, we'll see you soon.
Bios of Guest and Co-Hosts
Guest: Becky Takeda-Tinker, President, Colorado State University Global
Since March, 2023, Dr. Becky Takeda-Tinker has served as the first president and CEO of Colorado State University Global, the nation’s only online, fully accredited, state, nonprofit university. She was appointed to this position as a champion of workforce success through innovative and evidence-based education and training programs and models. In her previous role as Chief Education & Operations Innovation Officer at the CSU System, Dr. Takeda-Tinker leveraged years of experience in collaborating, leading, and sharing what is possible among diverse stakeholders to deliver innovative higher education and training programs that ensure workforce success. Prior to that, she served as Recovery Officer with Colorado’s Departments of Labor & Employment and Higher Education, where she worked to invest post-pandemic federal and state funds for economic growth and recovery. Previously, her roles within CSU have included Chief Educational Innovation Officer and Dean of Academic Affairs. Her 13 years of work with the institution has led to the graduation and degree completion of over 20,000 in CSU Global’s first decade while still serving over 20,000 students, all without the benefit of state financial support. In the private sector, Dr. Takeda-Tinker has held leadership positions with Finesse LLC; Merchants Billing Services, Inc.; Digital Courier Technologies, Inc.; SMART Modular Technologies, Inc.; and Sterling Ventures. She holds a Ph.D. in organization and management with a specialization in leadership; an MBA in finance; a post-graduate certificate in marketing management; and a BA in Economics. She is also the author of Impacting the Future of Higher Education: Insight Into a New Model That Works for Students, Academic Institutions, and America, has been selected as one of Denver Business Journal’s Outstanding Women in Business, named one of the 25 Most Powerful Women in Business by the Colorado Women’s Chamber of Commerce, and one of the Five Higher Ed Leaders to Watch by Education Dive, a Woman of Distinction by the Girl Scouts, and a Power Book Thought Leader by the Denver Business Journal.
Co-Host: Bridget Burns, Executive Director, University Innovation Alliance
Dr. Bridget Burns is the founding Executive Director of the University Innovation Alliance (UIA). For the past decade, she has advised university presidents, system chancellors, and state and federal policy leaders on strategies to expand access to higher education, address costs, and promote completion for students of all backgrounds. The UIA was developed during Bridget’s tenure as an American Council on Education (ACE) Fellowship at Arizona State University. She held multiple roles within the Oregon University System, including serving as Chief of Staff and Senior Policy Advisor, where she won the national award for innovation in higher education government relations. She was a National Associate for the National Center for Public Policy and Higher Education, and has served on several statewide governing boards including ones governing higher education institutions, financial aid policy, and policy areas impacting children and families.
Co-Host: Candice Staples, Senior Director of Alliance Engagement, University Innovation Alliance
Dr. Candice Staples, as the University Innovation Alliance’s Senior Director of Alliance Engagement, is responsible for development and oversight of the UIA’s member engagement and support strategy. She is an experienced leader in the nonprofit sector and the higher education field. She advocates for institutional equity by shedding light on understudied populations in postsecondary institutions. Previously, she worked for Charitable Ventures, the University of Maryland, the Consortium on High Achievement and Success, and the Thurgood Marshall College Fund. She has been recognized for her research by the University of Maryland Graduate Research Interaction Day (GRID) and had her dissertation funded in part by the University of Maryland College of Education Support Program for Advancing Research and Collaboration (SPARC) grant. She holds a B.A. in Psychology from Hampton University, an M.S.Ed. in Higher Education Administration from the University of Pennsylvania, and a Ph.D. in Higher Education, Student Affairs, and International Education Policy from the University of Maryland - College Park.
About Weekly Wisdom
Weekly Wisdom is an event series that happens live on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. It also becomes a podcast episode. Every week, we join forces with Inside Higher Ed and talk with a sitting college president or chancellor about how they're specifically navigating the challenges of this moment. These conversations will be filled with practicable things you can do right now by unpacking how and why college leaders are making decisions within higher education. Hopefully, these episodes will also leave you with a sense of optimism and a bit of inspiration.
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