Weekly Wisdom 2/19/24: Transcript of Conversation With Charles Welch, President and CEO of the American Association of State Colleges and Universities (AASCU)

This interview in the Weekly Wisdom Series originally aired on February 19, 2024 as part of the University Innovation Alliance’s Innovating Together Podcast, appearing live on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. The transcript of this podcast episode is intended to serve as a guide to the entire conversation, and we encourage you to listen to this podcast episode. You can also access our summary, along with helpful links and audio from this episode.

Charles Welch:
But I think the way that you've moved that along is you have constant communication. You're approachable. You try to keep it real, I guess, with individuals and not kill them with a bunch of higher-ed speak or something like that. And just really talk about, "Look, this is why, and this is what I have to consider, and X, Y, and Z." And I think it helps. Again, it doesn't always create everybody being happy or taking away some of the negativity, but I think it definitely makes it easier when everybody feels like they're engaged, a part of it, and that they're being listened to.

Bridget Burns:
Welcome to Innovating Together, a podcast produced by the University Innovation Alliance. This is a podcast for busy people in higher education who are looking for the best ideas, inspiration, and leaders that will help you improve student success. I'm your host, Bridget Burns. Each week, I partner with a journalist to have a conversation with a sitting college president, chancellor, system leader, or someone in the broader ecosystem who's really an inspiring leader. And the goal is to have a conversation to distill their perspective and their insights gathered from their leadership journey. Our hope is that this is inspiring and gives you something to look forward to each week.

This episode, my co-host is Inside Higher Ed Co-Founder and CEO, Doug Lederman. Today we have a leader who has fantastic insights drawn from a variety of vantage points across higher ed. So, I'm really excited about this conversation.

Doug Lederman:
And before we get to him, remind you that this week, as always, Weekly Wisdom's brought to you by Mainstay, which is formerly known as AdmitHub, the Student Engagement and Retention Platform that proves its effectiveness through random controlled trials and peer-reviewed research. It's done a lot of work over the last few years with Georgia State University, which is where it's probably been best known for, helped reduce Georgia State's summer melt of incoming students by 21 percent. There's another study that shows how it improved retention, helped Georgia State hold on to 1200 students that it probably otherwise would've lost. So, check out those pieces of research and more about Mainstay at Mainstay.com.

And now on to this week's guest. We're joined by the new president of AASCU, which is the American Association of State Colleges and Universities, Charles Welch, Chuck Welch. He's been, as Bridget said, he's had a really interesting background. He comes most directly from president of Arkansas State University. Before that, he oversaw Henderson State University, and he's worked in the two-year sector, the four-year sector, within systems, at a campus, et cetera. So, really diverse background, which is something that I think serves people well at a moment like this, at a national group like AASCU. So welcome, great to have you here.

Charles Welch:
Thanks, Doug. Great to be with you. Appreciate it.

Bridget Burns:
Yeah, I was just saying that I think there are very few leaders in the field who have as much experience with the different altitudes within higher ed of being able to think from a systems perspective, from a campus perspective, but now from a national perspective, which I think is going to be exactly the right fit in terms of experience and vantage point for AASCU's next chapter. So, this is, hey, I'm a big fan of having you in this role, and we're excited to hear a bit more about you. So, I'll just kick off by asking you to share a little bit about yourself, and we're always selfishly interested in you as a leader. Tell us about your leadership style, and mainly, where'd you get the idea for it? Where'd you learn about leadership from? Is there one person that really inspired you? Just give us a who is Chuck as a leader and why are you the leader that you are?

Charles Welch:
Well, thank you, Bridget, and I appreciate the opportunity to talk about it. And you're right, I've had incredible opportunities in my career at varying levels. My first chancellor's position was at a community college, 31 years old, and then I moved to a regional comprehensive university that was not within a system at 34, and then became the system head at 37, and have been there for the last 13 years. And so, it really gave me a wonderful understanding of the different sectors in higher education, some of the nuances that come with being in a system, not being in a system, being directly with a board. But one of the things that was consistent across any of those sectors were, in large part, the challenges were the same. The resources, the complexities might be a little bit different, but we all dealt with a similar set of issues.

I'm nontraditional in a number of fronts. Number one was from how quickly I moved into those positions, my age, the fact that I did work at all those different levels. But I'm also a first-generation college student and certainly did not go to college intending to be in this line of work. I've joked many times in many different forums that I've yet to meet an individual who went to college saying, "I'm going to be a university administrator," or "I'm going to be a college administrator." I think it just happens organically. Unlike K-12, where perhaps they aspire to be a principal or a superintendent, you don't typically see that in higher education.

And really, my path started – I was going to go to law school, and I wanted to be a politician, and then I had been president of the student body in high school, and then I became president of the student body at the University of Arkansas, my alma mater. And it was at that point when I began working very closely with the chancellor of the institution at the time, Dan Ferritor, and seeing what he did and the way that he worked, and then developed a relationship with Alan Sugg. Alan was the president of the University of Arkansas system, had previously been the president of Texas A&M, Corpus Christi – good AASCU institution – and I began to watch those gentlemen and think, “Wow, they can have tremendous impact on students, particularly students that come from backgrounds like mine where no one had really ever even remotely considered going to college.”

And I knew it was going to have a transformative effect on my life, and I wanted to see, can I help make sure that that same impact is felt for other individuals? And so, when you asked about that one person, I mean, there's so many, and I mentioned two of them. But really Alan Sugg, I think, was probably the one person that I really tried to emulate and watch and learn from. He was an incredibly effective leader, but also very kind, very engaging, definitely believed in relationships and everything came back to student success. He gave me my first opportunity when I probably didn't deserve it, being very young and green, but he believed in what was possible.

And so, throughout my career, I've tried to take some of those lessons about relationships. I'm a huge relationship person and believe that when you truly know individuals and try to work together and understand where they're coming from, you have a much better sense of being able to make the right decision and work together, focusing on students, trying not to forget. It gets harder, when it's been 30 years since I graduated from college, to remember the struggles, remember waiting on that financial aid check, or am I going to be able to make this payment this month? And so, I want to always try to take myself back to that, put myself in the shoes of the students that are facing a lot of those hardships and challenges, and remember that we're there to serve them, and we're there to try to help them be successful.

So I'm a big believer in partnerships and collaboration and just always trying to do the right thing. And I know that sounds very general and maybe cliché, but I think everything else builds off of that. And if you start with that general mentality, I think you're able to be successful ultimately.

Bridget Burns:
No, I think that it's a healthy, realistic perspective. There's a lot of folks who think you can just tell people what to do and that they just do it. And they keep their jobs for a hot minute. So, I did not know that you were also a student government kid who then transitioned – So, I also was an ASP [inaudible 00:07:47]. We get hooked at that early age where you're engaging with the board, you're starting to understand this totally different perspective of the institution. And you're, I think, the fourth president that we've met who has that little piece in your background. So, I'll be curious how many others are out there, but that's a super grounded and important perspective.

Can I ask, what was your relationship like with your student body president at Henderson State that was informed by the fact that you had literally been in those shoes? Did do you feel like you had a different relationship at all?

Charles Welch:
No, no. I took the relationship that I had with Chancellor Ferritor during my own student body presidency and tried to do the exact same thing with the President at Henderson. I met with him on a regular basis, as he did with me, and I promised myself and them that my initial answer to anything they brought forward wouldn't be no, that I would really try to give them a chance to sell me on why it was important or to talk to me about, "This is really important to students." And try to realize, even though I was closer in age maybe than some other presidents, I still didn't have the perspective they did, and I really needed to have some faith and believe in them. And I wasn't always able to say yes to everything, obviously. But then I could talk to them about, "Here's why it's not possible."

And that was another one of those leadership things. It's not just saying no, it's explaining why you have to say no. And what I've found throughout my career is, whether it be students or whether it be colleagues, if you really give a rationale and show that you listened and you understand and you have a reason for saying no, not just "because I said so" or "because I'm in charge", folks still may not love it, but they at least understand it and respect it. So I always try to do that with our student leaders as well, and try to keep them focused on the role of a student government president is to try to improve the experience for students, and try to make sure that you're representing all students, that you're not trying to be a constituent servant in terms of, "Oh, can you help this one student with their parking ticket?" Or "Can you do that?" It's more global than that.

And I always loved it. It was always one of the favorite things. And to this day, I still do a lot of mentoring with students, and it never fails. And I'm sure I was the same way, that they always apologize for taking up my time. And I always tell them, that is my absolute favorite part of the day, because I'm not sitting here today had those individuals not invested in me, and I want to give that back to them and help them. It makes me feel good to know that we've got that next generation of leaders that aspire to higher education administration.

Ray Magliozzi:
Hi, I'm Ray Magliozzi, co-host of NPR's Car Talk. If you're working to solve the biggest challenges in higher education, you've come to the right podcast. And if you're looking for a student retention platform proven to get results, check out Mainstay.com. I may be biased because the CEO of Mainstay just happens to be my son. So, instead of taking my word for it, you can trust the research they've done with Georgia State, Brown, and Yale as proof that Mainstay improves enrollment, retention, and wellbeing. Visit Mainstay.com/research to learn more.

Doug Lederman:
I'm interested in how you go about bringing people along, and I'm thinking of students, I'm also thinking of faculty groups and faculty bodies, when the answer can't be yes a lot. And I think from a financial standpoint, we're clearly entering a period or we're in a period where there's probably going to be more difficult conversations than fun ones. And so, your approach of not saying no, out of the gate at least, is admirable. But I'm curious what you've learned about – I look at the state of administrative faculty relations as pretty vexed right now. It's exaggerated, or it's a blanket statement that obviously isn't true across the board.

Charles Welch:
No, no, no. Understood. Understood.

Doug Lederman:
How do you think about leading institutions, obviously, and now you're leading leaders of institutions, but at a challenging time? And how do you think about that? Whether the job is different or how you go about doing it?

Charles Welch:
So obviously the job has changed, the issues have changed, the severity of some of the issues have changed. The financial challenges have always – You could go back to the start of my career, when you asked someone what's the biggest challenge, it was finances. But I definitely think today, it's much more complex and really is the top challenge. But I don't think the way you address it has changed at all. I have long said that when I hire anyone, the number one thing I'm most interested in are their interpersonal communication skills. I don't really care if the individual has every academic success in the world. If they can't communicate, if they can't collaborate, if they can't do those things, they're really going to struggle in the environments that I try to foster.

And so, while I'm not able to say yes and don't like to immediately say no, I think number one, you have to be very honest. Don't ever get caught not being straight. And what I'll usually say is, "That's a tough call. That's a tough request, but let's think about this for a minute and let's see if there are some alternative solutions, if we can't get to what you're requesting." And then I have often found, and I've been criticized by this, not criticized, but questioned by this, by some of my colleagues that I'm a big believer in sharing more information than less. And they'll say, "Well, you don't need to be telling all those things." And what I have found is if folks realize that you're trying to give them as much information as you possibly can, if you're being upfront with them, it helps, I think, when you get to that ultimate point.

I'll never forget, we had a very, very difficult situation in one of my prior presidencies and I called a – It was at Henderson. I'll tell you, this was back 15 years ago, and I called in the entire faculty for a forum, that anybody could come. And we sat down, and I walked them through the situation that we were facing, and it was lengthy. I definitely got in the weeds and really discussed it. And when it was over, I had multiple faculty members say to me effectively the same thing. And that was, "I have a deeper appreciation for the way you have to look at it now that I never understood before. I didn't totally follow and understand everything that you said, but I appreciated you valuing me enough to have that conversation with me. And although we may still not agree, and I still may be critical, I'm appreciative that I'm part of the conversation."

And so, I think you're never going to find unanimity. There's obviously some folks that are never going to be satisfied regardless of what you do. But I think the way that you move that along is you have constant communication. You're approachable. You try to keep it real, I guess, with individuals and not kill them with a bunch of higher-ed speak or something like that, and just really talk about, "Look, this is why, and this is what I have to consider, and X, Y, and Z." I think it helps. Again, it doesn't always create everybody being happy or taking away some of the negativity, but I think it definitely makes it easier when everybody feels like they're engaged, a part of it, and that they're being listened to.

Bridget Burns:
Yeah, definitely that resonates for me, because I'm thinking about conversations with especially adjunct faculty or folks who have a very specific point of view, and it feels like they have been communicating about the experience that they have and nobody's listening. Because no one will explain the backstory, which is – What I often am sharing is, "Listen, there are no good choices." I've never met a president who's spending time deciding what frosting flavor. They would love an easy decision. There are only hard choices, and there are only raise tuition or fire people. That's it. So, it's either harm students or – There's not any easy decisions.

But I also feel like that nuance and really explaining the context is part of what's missing in this sector. It's the reason why there's so much of an internal segmentation, polarization, faculty versus staff versus student versus administrative versus president versus board. It's all based on this idea that we have different interests, when it's really, we've never done enough work to explain the vantage point so that people understand all the stuff behind the scenes. I just think we're all the same team and the public, what they're seeing, it's not helpful to see all that, the different voices and that polarization, I think.

Charles Welch:
Bridget, I'll say to your point, I think you're exactly right. We all have the same interests, we just look at it through a different lens. And I'll never forget something one of my former presidents that I worked for said to me one time when I was getting ready to aspire to my first presidency. He said, "Chuck, you can't truly understand or appreciate the presidency until you've sat in the chair." Well, I thought that was the most arrogant thing I had ever heard in my entire life until I got there and realized there is not a single other person in the organization that looks through that lens. The vice presidents have responsibility for their respective areas. The students are looking out. The president is the one that is responding.

And so, it does make it a little bit different. And you have to remember that. And you have to remember that I may not be able to make the staff happy because I need to do this for faculty and students, perhaps, or whatever the case may be. And so, it's remembering that and keeping it in perspective, but realizing that at the end of the day, it's what is in the best interest of the most, what is in the best interest of the institution and moving us forward and let us achieve our goals, and that there's going to be very few situations where it works for everyone.

Bridget Burns:
That's great. So, I would shift to a little bit back to you. I'm curious, I'm sure that given the length of your career and especially getting into those kinds of roles at such a young age, you've seen some stuff, and I'm just curious about the hardest experience or hardest chapter for you as a leader and what you learned from it. I'm sure you can't tell everything, but I do think that's the stuff that is the greatest teacher.

Charles Welch:
No question, Bridget. And obviously I've been betrayed by individuals that work for me or that did things that just crushed me and I couldn't believe it. And those are hard, and you learn from. You have to trust while also verifying and those kinds of things. But the singular one that I think, and it's been more recent, just in the last couple of years, last five years, I guess, was we mentioned I was president of Henderson State from 2008 until 2011, and then went to the Arkansas State system. And in 2019, I got a call from the governor's office, asking me if I could help out, that Henderson was really facing some very serious financial challenges, and they felt like they needed some assistance, and could the system step in an informal role and do that? Of course, I said yes. Number one, you get that call, you're going to say yes. Number two, I had been on that campus, loved it dearly.

And so we stepped in and quickly found that it was far more severe than anyone realized, and that it was literally on the brink of closure. Things were that bad. And so, we got to work immediately in doing things, and then COVID hits, and that just exacerbates an already bad situation. And so, you come down to a couple of years ago where the institution had to declare financial exigence and the institution had to engage in retrenchment, very severe retrenchment, closing programs, terminating tenured faculty or eliminating those lines. And it was heartbreaking. Some of these individuals I'd gone to church with when I lived in the community. And of course, the campus leadership was driving the train, but obviously at the system, we had to be – And by this point, they had joined our system. They had formally moved in.

And it was one of those balances of I didn't want to do it, but I also knew the other option was closing the university. And I lost some friendships over it. There were individuals who were very angry with me that felt like I didn't stand up for them or that there were other alternatives, we just were unwilling to explore, which simply wasn't the case. But what I learned from it was that you have to – That university plays a critical role in that part of the state. And if not for that institution, many of those students aren't going to have a chance to go to college. And I knew that the beating that I took on social media or the friendships that I lost or some of the things that my family read that people said, at the end of the day, was worth it if that meant we could keep that university open, we could continue to provide those opportunities for students, and that we could ensure that, moving forward, that the institution was going to be stable and sustainable.

I would do it again. Would I change a few things that I learned some lessons? Absolutely. But what I learned probably more than anything is these positions come with difficult decisions and you have to be willing – You have to grow a thick skin. You have to be willing to take those things, but you have to be willing to do what is right. Now, the good news is, that institution's on a path towards much better days. I kept telling everybody, it's a marathon. It's not going to happen overnight. But they're moving in the right directions. And I loved going to the last commencement ceremony I went to on that campus, watching those students walk across and reminding myself, if not for the hard work that many of us did, they're not walking across that stage that day and changing their lives. Just double down for me. You have to do it.

And what's interesting is I had a conversation with an AASCU colleague a few nights ago that's facing some very significant challenges and was asking me, "Talk to me about how you addressed these." And so, I was able to pass that on, and I told the person, “You have to push through, you have to persevere, you have to do it. Folks will get angry. And I get it. It's their livelihood. You're changing things. But you have to do it for the students. You have to do it for the community. You have to do it for those whose jobs are safe.” And so, it just taught me that sometimes doing the most unpopular thing in the end is the best thing for the most involved.

Bridget Burns:
A hundred percent. And honestly, as someone who years later was the chief of staff for a university system, and we had an AASCU campus that went through exigency multiple times, it's such a painful process and it does require such leadership to be willing to face that. There are so many campuses who are doing little things around the edges to avoid the real work that needs to happen. And that's the reason why we are in such a precarious state as a sector, is that making hard decisions is avoided in most cases. So, we should appreciate and celebrate those leaders who are willing to do it because it's just so painful.

I would also add that what a perfect experience for the AASCU leader, because so many campuses are going to wrestle with that. If there was anything I could wish for, it would be we have done this enough that we have to be able to design an experience that honors what has been and makes it not so devastating. We have experience with honoring things that no longer exist. Emeritus is a status we create. It's a term of art. If we have to shut down a department, can we make it so that people don't feel like you just ripped the carpet out from under them? Not that it's going to be so easy, but this is something that's worth all of our energy and attention. Because if we want higher ed to make bold, brave choices, we have to come with ways that those experiences are not going to prevent people from keeping their jobs.

Charles Welch:
No question. Bridget, the other thing we learned from that was exactly what you just said. Most institutions wait until they are forced to do it, where there is no other choice. And so, when we realized that's where that campus was, obviously, that was something that we didn't have any choice in, but we immediately went to our other six system campuses and said, "We're going to begin a very aggressive program review process, where we look at cost and we look at productivity, and we look – " And of course, and their immediate reaction was, "You're going to cut all of our programs just like you did at Henderson." And I said, "No, no, no, no. We're going to try to prevent that while we're in a position of strength. And if we need to reform the program, if we need to rethink the way that we're doing things, we have some time. That we're not – "

Just because the information comes back and it may not be great, doesn't mean you have to shut it down in this particular instance, but it allows us more runway to hopefully get it right so we don't get to that position. And that wasn't easy either, because as you can imagine, everybody was like, "Whoa, they're about to do the same thing here." None of the institutions were even remotely close to that situation. But again, that came back to that communications, folks. This is to help us ensure we don't get there because – And that's what I keep talking about to our campuses. You've got to be sustainable. We're going to have to change. Don't wake up one day and find yourself in that exigency environment.

Bridget Burns:
Yeah. Well, that's really profound. Thank you for sharing that. It's a great example that I don't think people talk enough about from the other side, and there are a lot of people who are just so afraid, they don't take that step forward, and you need more people sharing. You survived. Yes, those scars –

Charles Welch:
We survived.

Bridget Burns:
[inaudible 00:25:32].

Charles Welch:
Lost a few hairs, but survives, though before hairs.

Bridget Burns:
Doug, do you want to jump in with the last three?

Doug Lederman:
Sure. Yeah. We usually like to round out things by talking to you, getting a sense about the best advice that you've received in your career and either related or potentially different, the advice that you most consistently give to others. And you talked about the people you mentor. So, the best advice you got, and if you can share who it was from or when it came, and then what you tend to advise people as they look to you to figure out their next step.

Charles Welch:
Absolutely. Absolutely. So, it's the same. The advice I received is the one I always give to everybody else, and it came from Dan Ferritor, who I had mentioned earlier, who was the chancellor of the University of Arkansas, and he said, "Chuck, don't ever forget who you are. Don't change who you are. Any position that you hold, the position is you. You are not the position." In other words, don't try to change who you are to make that fit into that space. Because people will see that if you're not genuine, if you're not authentic in terms of the way that you carry yourself or do things. And I'm a very informal person. As soon as we finish this call, this jacket's coming off. I've got a vest over there I'll probably put on. I like to wear my flip-flops and tennis shoes. And I'll never forget coming across students one day and they were like, "You have real clothes." But it also reminded me, I taught a first-year experience class one time, and I wore a tie every day because I felt like I was supposed to, and at the end of the semester when I got the evaluations, like four or five students had written, "My favorite day was when you didn't wear a tie, 'cause you were applicable and real." And it really hit home for me.

And the other thing was, most people who meet me or have met me through my career have figured, "He got started at such a young age. He's had these wonderful opportunities. He must either be wealthy or extremely well-connected." And neither was true. My dad was a truck driver. My mom was a stay-at-home mom. They were incredibly supportive. But I had to create a lot of this myself and had a lot of help, obviously from mentors. But I've never changed who I am. I like to have a good time. I'm loud. I like to joke around.

And so about, I don't know, four or five years ago, ironically, I got a letter from Dan Ferritor, and it said, "I'm very proud of you. You've done a lot of great things." And he said, "I'll be honest with you. There was a time when you were a student leader that I wasn't sure you would be able to make it here because you didn't take yourself seriously." He said, "What I've seen through the years, though, is that's the one thing that has helped you the most," is that people feel like I'm approachable or I'm different. There's always been a running joke at Arkansas when they would call the presidents of the different campuses up to the table to testify at legislative hearings, they would say, "Well, we're glad to have Dr. Burns. We're glad to have Dr. Lederman. We're glad to have Chuck." It was always Chuck. And I prided myself on that. Because it was about, I built those relationships, they felt comfortable. That's who I am.

And so that's what I tell people. Don't come into the presidency and try to be something that you're not. Be yourself. That's what got you there. People will relate to that better. They'll see the authenticity. They'll want to follow you and support you, and you'll have much greater success. And if folks want to criticize me for that, so be it. But my other joke is that if you see me in a tie, it's probably going to be because I'm testifying or I'm in coffin, because otherwise I'm just not wearing one. That's just not my thing. Although Bridget, I did wear one Monday. Now, I wore it with a quarter zip, but I'm still trying to feel things out a little bit. But then that's who I am.

Bridget Burns:
Well, maybe you just start being the guy who's going to bring back bolo ties for the president.

Charles Welch:
Oh, no. Hey, I know my limitations and what I can and can't pull off, and I can't pull off a bow tie either. So unfortunately, neither of those will –

Bridget Burns:
I always like to play the game of when you see somebody who dresses a little different at work, all of a sudden one you're like, "Are they going to court or a job interview? Court or a job interview? Which is it?" Right?

Charles Welch:
Exactly.

Bridget Burns:
Well, this is wonderful. The last question I want to ask is if there is a leadership book that has been valuable to you that you find yourself most often recommending. Our audiences, they're interested, and they always like to read these books and see what has helped you.

Charles Welch:
Sure. So, I'm going to have an entirely different answer, and I've read the books that are most frequently cited, but I'm a huge believer in learning from history and experience. And I love to read nonfiction autobiographies or biographies or from individuals who have walked that walk. I think you can learn so much from those books. I'll never forget a book that – This is a political book, but it was called, I'm pretty sure the name of it's The Last Republicans, and it was about George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush. And it gave you an entirely different perspective of those two men and where they came from and what drove their thinking and their policies. I've read all of the Lyndon Johnson books. Not all of them, but a lot of the most famous Lyndon Johnson books, because he was a master at getting things done at times when you shouldn't think he should be able to do that. But then you also see the vulnerabilities that they had, where they admit those mistakes.

And so, I would encourage folks, leadership books are great, but I would encourage folks too, to read those books about people that they don't necessarily have to be people that you completely admire. I don't admire everything Lyndon Johnson did, but I am fascinated by how a Southerner from Texas was able to get civil rights passed and how he was able to do that in that era. And so, I think you can just learn so much from watching people. Sometimes you can learn what not to do. I've read plenty of those books and thought, "God, I don't want to be like him," or "I do want to be like her." But I have probably gleaned more from reading those books than any of the other leadership books that are written specifically on leadership, because I think so much of what drives how an individual's a leader is how they were raised, the circumstances they came up in, the life challenges that they have faced. And I think that really informs who we are and the decisions that we make.

Bridget Burns:
That's perfect. And I think those are great recommendations in general, because people should be learning more from history. So Chuck, it has been really wonderful to get to know you. This has been [inaudible 00:32:35]. I feel like people got a better sense of who you are, and I feel really good about where AASCU is, and I hope we can tackle some of these bigger challenges together. So, thanks for being here and being on our show and for Doug, who I don't get to call Dr. Lederman, but I –

Doug Lederman:
No, because I've got a measly bachelor's degree. That's all I ever got.

Bridget Burns:
That's actually why we [inaudible 00:32:57].

Doug Lederman:
[inaudible 00:32:58] educated person in most rooms I'm in. I'm proud of it.

Charles Welch:
It serves you pretty well.

Bridget Burns:
We wanted to invite you here today because we're actually here to recruit you for a program. We think you have great potential and possibly come to get a degree. But anyway, well, we hope this has been inspiring for all of those of you at home, and we look forward to seeing you next time.
 

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Weekly Wisdom is an event series that happens live on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. It also becomes a podcast episode. Every week, we join forces with Inside Higher Ed and talk with a sitting college president or chancellor about how they're specifically navigating the challenges of this moment. These conversations will be filled with practicable things you can do right now by unpacking how and why college leaders are making decisions within higher education. Hopefully, these episodes will also leave you with a sense of optimism and a bit of inspiration.

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