Notes:
1) This interview in the Weekly Wisdom Series originally aired on March 29, 2021 as part of the University Innovation Alliance’s Innovating Together podcast, appearing live on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.
2) This transcript is intended to serve primarily as a guide to the full conversation. We apologize for any inaccuracies and encourage you to listen to the podcast.
Click here to access our summary, along with helpful links and audio from this episode.
Gabrielle Starr:
We decide to explain our worst decision, real or fantasy, in terms of a piece of literature, a film, or a TV show. That was pants-wettingly funny for the entire team.
Bridget Burns:
Welcome to Innovating Together, podcast produced by the University Innovation Alliance. This is the podcast for busy people in higher education who are looking for the best ideas, inspiration, and leaders to help you improve student success. I'm your host, Bridget Burns.
You’re about to watch another episode of Start the Week with Wisdom, which for those of you at home, if you have not seen this before, these are weekly episodes where we conduct an interview with a sitting college president or chancellor, and we want to talk to them about how they’re navigating the challenge of this moment. We’re in a really unique time, and we want to focus on their leadership and unpack how they are making decisions, how they are navigating, and hopefully it will leave you with a sense of optimism, a bit inspired and give you a bit of hope.
Doug Lederman:
And I'm Doug Lederman, editor and co-founder of Inside Higher Ed. This week we’re really excited to bring an interview with President Gabrielle Starr, from Pomona College. She warned us right before we started that she had just had her second Moderna vaccine. So if she starts sweating profusely or bobbing and weaving, I guess we’ll know why. Thanks for being here anyway.
Bridget Burns:
Yes. You really are taking one for the team by being here today. We had no idea this was two days after your shot. For those of us at home who are preparing for that and thinking about all the things to reschedule right after the second shot, you are a true hero.
Gabrielle Starr:
Well, thank you. I will say I'm sure that it is much less difficult than the real thing. Go get your shot.
Bridget Burns:
We usually start our conversation by getting a sense of what is going on in your world and kind of you start with how you’re holding up right now? We obviously know about that, but in terms of the presidency – how are you holding up right now? Can you give us a sense of what it’s like right now for you, as a leader?
Gabrielle Starr:
I feel, fingers crossed, like we’re finally turning a corner. Vaccines, we’ve started getting vaccines out on campus to faculty and staff. We’re moving pretty quickly. I think we’re up to about 500 doses out now in the last three weeks, which feels really great. We think we have a date set, but we haven’t announced yet. We’re bringing students back for summer research and opening up our residence halls. They got really, really hard hit, and none of us were able to bring students back until just about now. So we’ll be able to bring people back to work, which is really great. That was probably the hardest part this last year. Now we’re planning for what we hope is a mixture of celebration in the fall and acknowledgement that there’s been a lot of loss around the world. I'm starting to feel like, “Okay, we just got to keep this going a little while longer and we’ll make it.”
Doug Lederman:
Curious, what has leading during this period been like? What did you do differently? How different was it for you, and what did you do differently, and how do you think you’ve adapted?
Gabrielle Starr:
I was in a funny time when all of this started, I’d only been at Pomona a couple of years. I was in the middle of rebuilding my leadership team. We’d just hired two new staff members, senior staff members – our head of advancements and our head of finance and operations. So they got here in December, and then by March we were all at home, and trying to build a kind of camaraderie over Zoom was interesting. But I think what it meant was we lost a lot of formality really quickly and we moved to daily check-ins. Monday through Friday, we used to have just a once a week, three-hour palooza of discussion, but really was a once a week check-in and it started off with, “Okay, how are you doing?” and then mutual problem solving.
Now I feel that after this year, I know that there’s more than two-dimensional people on the screen. I also decided this fall that I was going to teach this spring. I hadn’t taught since I got to Pomona and I felt, first of all, like I really, really missed students. I also, on the empathy front, kind of felt like all of my faculty colleagues were really struggling with coming to terms with how to make a classroom work and to be their best selves. I figured, “You know what? I'm going to throw myself into it and see how it plays out.” So I think this little screen can be a big equalizer if you approach it that way.
Bridget Burns:
I'm curious, I was looking into your background in the advance of this show and I didn’t know that you were a triple A.S. very distinguished faculty member. When I looked at what your area of expertise is – English and touches on neuroscience and the connection between how art and music connect with the brain – am I in the ballpark? So I'm super curious about – in this time when we know that people are so burnt out, the Zoom fatigue and all of this, I bet you have very strong views on what people should be doing to try and bring back some semblance of normalcy connected to exposing themselves to some kind of art or some kind of – I'm just curious about what is the best practice from your perspective that you’ve been using to inspire your team that draws upon your background in terms of your expertise?
Gabrielle Starr:
It’s interesting, Bridget. I also decided I was going to write a new book last January, before all of this went to [unintelligible 00:06:59]. The book is about aesthetics and time, and how you can come down to a single kind of time point and a powerful experience, or it can just seem like time never stops. And so one thing that my team and I have done is, instead of holding the usual office hours, we picked an art form and we have just had a kind of study break – the students talking about what music they listen to, what they’ve been doing to get outside of themselves. Music is really interesting because oftentimes we bring prosocial goals to how we listen to music. We listen to music to be with each other. We listen to music to dance together. We listen to music to share a mood. Even if you’re doing it on your headphones, you are building a connection with someone outside of you or something outside of you that can help you feel not quite so closed in.
We also played a little game following on The Office, where we decided to explain our worst decision, real or fantasy, in terms of a piece of literature, a film, or a TV show. That was pants-wettingly funny for the entire team. It’s just one of those moments like, “Okay, we’re just going to take advantage of the fact that none of us is living in our normal way," and we got some great answers. My favorite involved The Color Purple and the response was, “I should’ve spit in his lemonade more.”
Doug Lederman:
It’s pretty great.
Bridget Burns:
That’s good. No, for folks at home, it’s like we all just need some tips in terms of – because I think a lot of people – there are so many things that we would interact with that were soul awakening, touch points in culture that by being in Zoom, in this two-dimensional world the last year, I think a lot of people have forgotten that they actually have access to music, they have access to dance, they have access to other things that are going to be really helpful in terms of their resilience in navigating through right now.
Gabrielle Starr:
Yeah. You can do an awful lot. There’s [unintelligible 00:09:40] is a scholar who writes about the fact that art is kind of a prosthetic for us as human beings. It can make us feel stronger, it can make us feel powerful, faster, more precise, better. Human beings need prosthetics. It’s not just technologies like these. It’s creativity and it’s human connection and human beings not under utilitarian way, but are – we can engage with as extensions of each other to do something good in the world and reminding yourself that even in isolation you have those possibilities of connection. It’s really helpful.
Doug Lederman:
I'm curious, Pomona, when I think about the sort of continuum of higher ed, Pomona is probably among the places whose way of operating, instructionally and otherwise, probably has been affected as much as any place by the pandemic. I'm curious, as you think about sort of what from this year is likely to be sustained certainly in how you lead, but also in how sort of where you lead the institution – what do you think is likely to have staying power?
Gabrielle Starr:
Well, from the human perspective, I think it is trying to reinforce the idea that none of us can do everything, that you’re going to have to pick and choose as to how you engage. We tell students all the time, “There’s so much out there. There’s so much to do. Take advantage of everything.” It’s not healthy for them. So what I'm hoping is that we can take the sense of self-regulation that we don't have to do everything and we can't expect ourselves to do everything. And then I think there are some pedagogical things that we can take from this experience as well – several of our faculty in math planned, before all of this happened, a math summer into – enter to college math over the summer. It was always meant to be online and split up by time zones.
The idea was – no matter how good a high school you went to or how great you are at math or how well-prepared you are, there are just different things you have to do in college. And they did this pilot program – the kids who were in it loved it. Not only did they come to school with study partners, but they came to school having listened to each other because when you’re sitting there with a novel problem and a group of five, you don't have any choice but to. It also reminded us that things like bridge programs that are meant to foster inclusivity on a college campus – they shouldn’t start on a college campus. They should start where the students are, wherever that is, and then start to build a community that comes with them rather than saying, "Your community starts here." So I think there are all sorts of things that we’ve done for outreach that I really hope we continue.
Bridget Burns:
Following up on that, I know that Pomona is just in a fundamentally different space in terms of really an exemplar-leading institution. There’s been a lot of chatter about small, private [unintelligible 00:13:47] colleges, and we know that many of them around the country are very nervous and try to figure out how to navigate. I'm guessing – I don't know, I could be wrong. Are they reaching out to you? Do you have any advice that you’re giving to other leaders who might not be in a Pomona institution, but that because of your experience you are helping kind of give them a bit of hope to navigate?
Gabrielle Starr:
Well, I hope so. One of the things that makes Pomona special is that we really exist in a tight consortium, and there are a lot of schools that are in consortia in name, but we really – we’re [unintelligible 00:14:32]. You just walk across the street and it’s the next college. And so we’ve taken this time to try to align our policies with each other, to really think about how we can collaborate better, what services we really can share and how we can enhance our curriculum by working with each other and what partnerships we can create. We’re also part of a group called The Liberal Arts College Racial Equity Leadership Alliance. That group started by Lori White at DePauw. We were really trying to say, “What can we do more together than we could do separately? Can we join in together to create the next generation of faculty? Can we join together to create the next generation of leadership? Can we share pipelines so that we can be agnostic as to what college a low-income student might attend, but unite all of our pipeline programs so that we can share the wealth?”
Some of us live in really diverse communities and some of us don't, and how can we bring that strength, the individual strength that each of us might have together? We’re just in the beginning of starting a partnership with a community college whose president I'm at, at the same time I met Bridget on the California Higher Ed COVID Recovery Group, who’s right here, in L.A. And we’re like, “Okay, this is where we should be working together to get their students not to Pomona necessarily.” It may not be a match, but from an A.A.-granting institution, like Compton College, to a four-year institution where the students can blossom. So really just saying – no matter how far we are at a distance, we can and should work together because none of us can do it on our own. And when we think we can or we think that we’re in competition with each other, we have plenty of students to go around. It’s a question of how we can best serve the students who need serving.
Bridget Burns:
That’s great. Keith [Curry] also – he’s been on this show before. It is interesting that that perception of scarcity and that we’re competing for students and there’s not enough of them brings out the worst in every institution. The problems that we need to struggle with as a sector really need a lot more heads than one, and so we have to kind of – I know that the enrollment numbers, people are freaking out, but it takes a bit of courage for us to be like, “No, we’re not going to let the scarcity pull us into contract and to play defense on [hide the ball] [unintelligible 00:17:41].”
Gabrielle Starr:
Yeah, this conversation – it’s not just scarcity, but it’s exclusivity. Right? My daughter is applying for high schools this year, and we were driving around and everything’s shut, so we could just feel around the edges. She’s only 13 and she said something that I really wish a bunch of 60-year-olds that I know, who are college presidents, would say. She said, “Mommy, you know, this school has a really low admissions rate. It’s one of those high-selective schools around, but I thought if I didn’t go I was passing up something special. I was one of the few people who got let in.” And then she’s like, “Why am I judging myself by how exclusive the community is that I would be joining?” If I hadn’t been driving, I would’ve turned around and just hugged her and kissed her because it was incredibly spot on.
That’s not how we need to judge ourselves, especially in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. We’re going to judge ourselves on who we exclude? That’s not the way to actually be successful. It’s the way to narrow and narrow success so that other people don't get it, and there’s no point to that.
Bridget Burns:
Yeah, especially as we know that young people right now – their level of anxiety is incredibly high in the midst of what’s going on. The last thing they need is excessive competition and, again, all of the vibes of exclusivity. That's great. I'm curious about –
Gabrielle Starr:
I have a visitor.
Bridget Burns:
This is real time. I'm curious about you as a leader. I find that this is interesting – when I ask people on the staff of a president, you know, what’s their leadership philosophy, it really varies and there seems like there isn’t enough conversation to kind of like set the table and say, “This is my philosophy. This is how I lead. This is how I make decisions.” So I'm curious if you can describe for us what you would say is your leadership philosophy or style for those at home?
Gabrielle Starr:
I would say two things. On the one hand, many years ago, when my husband and I were getting married, we’re both busy professionals and we’re not tied up on glamor. So we said, “We’re going to hire the best people that we can and then just get out of their way.” That’s my philosophy on faculty hiring, on leadership hiring – find the person that has the skills that you need and then let them move. So our strategic planning was entirely like that, very bottom-up and driven by faculty who truly care. And so much has come out of that even in the past year around ideas for inclusive classrooms, which is extraordinary work that a handful of faculty have just been exploding out into the curriculum. How can that work? Our chief operating officer had been through three government shut-downs.
That was the best hire I could’ve possibly made in this climate and just say, “All right, you know what you’re doing. I don't. I mean, I don't know the insides and out of debt refinancing. So put your team together and then expect them to work as a team.” So they joke about the fact that budgeting right now is the iron cage death match. I lock them in a room – I mean there’s no room, there’s no lock, but I just saying, “Don't come to me with any better proposal that you all don't agree on. And if you don't all agree on it, come up with a majority. If you need a minority opinion, tell me, but don't come to me individually with requests.” That’s a sense of – I need everyone to be focused on each other’s needs, too, and whether or not their needs rise to the top. I think that that ethos of teamwork and mutual respect and building that mutual respect is for me the only way that I could possibly lead.
I'm not good at telling people what to do, as you might have seen since I have a 10-year-old who just popped in, even though he knows mommy’s door was closed.
Bridget Burns:
It happens. I love that we have a response, but I think there’s a defense going on right now.
Doug Lederman:
A minority opinion.
Bridget Burns:
Yeah, minority opinion [is a good one]. That's great. Do you want to do this last one?
Doug Lederman:
What advice – since we generally have a lot of sort of – would be sort of early- and mid-career people – what advice would you give to an incoming, somebody who either is coming into a presidency for the first time or has that ahead. I don't know if it’s a piece of advice you got in the past or something you’ve adapted, but how would you advise about to be presidents or want-to-be presidents?
Gabrielle Starr:
The first thing I would say is you have no idea what you’re getting into – none. No matter what you think or how prepared you are, you have no idea what you’re getting into – and recognize that. The second thing is I had a colleague at NYU, Charles Bertolami, who said, “Gabi, just remember that everything addressed to you really should be read as dear occupant. So it’s like the stuff you get in the mail that’s not really addressed to you. Don't take things personally. Do everything that you can to realize that you are the institution in so many people’s minds and your responsibility is to keep that institutional perspective in mind, and then realize that’s not the only one because you’ve got whatever faculty member’s perspective may be constrained by their department –” a chair will have a larger one, a dean will have a broader one, but all of those perspectives are valid. Right?
Just because one is more capacious than the other, it doesn’t mean that it’s any more fundamentally right. Try to keep all of those perspectives going in your head as much as possible. And then the last bit of advice I get sounds kind of macabre, but it was, “Live like death is on your shoulder,” meaning that you’re making decisions, you’re going to do them the best you can at the time that you do them, and the outcome is not always up to you. So resign yourself to that and you’ll be happier.
Doug Lederman:
Is that also about lack of regret too, presumably? Yeah, that’s a good way to live, I think.
Bridget Burns:
Yeah. I love the “dear occupant.” That’s so applicable to so many people. Doug, I want to tell you that. It makes things a little bit less stressful. President Starr, it’s been really delightful to have you here today. Really wonderful to get to know you on the Recovery with Equity task force.
Gabrielle Starr:
Yeah.
Bridget Burns:
Excited to be able to share some of your wisdom with others. Thank you so much for making the time for us. Doug, excellent co-hosting, per usual. For those at home, we’re going to be meeting with Dan Greenstein next week from the [unintelligible 00:26:45] Pennsylvania system. Stay tuned for that and we will see you then. Otherwise, everyone have a great week. Love the 10-year-old pop-in. This is great. It makes us flipping cool and young.
Doug Lederman:
Yeah, we just lowered the audience level by a lot.
Bridget Burns:
Yeah, it’s great.
Gabrielle Starr:
Your average viewer age.
Bridget Burns:
Thank you so much.
Gabrielle Starr:
Thank you, everybody. Bye.
Bios of Guest and Co-Hosts
Guest: Gabrielle Starr, President, Pomona College
Dr. G. Gabrielle Starr became Pomona College's tenth president in 2017. She previously spent over 15 years at New York University, serving as English department chair, director of undergraduate studies, and College of Arts and Science dean. She co-founded a cross-university prison education program and is a national voice on college access for students of all backgrounds, the future of higher education, women in leadership, and the importance of the arts. Her writing has appeared in The New York Times, The Chronicle of Higher Education, and The Washington Post, among other publications. She serves on the California Higher Education Recovery with Equity Taskforce, which envisions a post-COVID approach for college preparation and workforce readiness. She also serves on the boards of the Guggenheim Foundation, the Los Angeles Philharmonic, Cedars-Sinai, the Consortium on Financing Higher Education (COFHE), and the executive committee of the Association of Independent California Colleges and Universities (AICCU). Dr. Starr grew up in Tallahassee, Florida, enrolling at Emory University at age 15. She received her bachelor’s and master’s degrees in women’s studies before earning her doctorate in English and American literature at Harvard University. Recipient of the Guggenheim Fellowship and author of two books, Dr. Starr's research focuses on neuroscience to understand how people respond to art.
Co-Host: Bridget Burns, Executive Director, University Innovation Alliance
Dr. Bridget Burns is the founding Executive Director of the University Innovation Alliance (UIA). For the past decade, she has advised university presidents, system chancellors, and state and federal policy leaders on strategies to expand access to higher education, address costs, and promote completion for students of all backgrounds. The UIA was developed during Bridget’s tenure as an American Council on Education (ACE) Fellowship at Arizona State University. She held multiple roles within the Oregon University System, including serving as Chief of Staff and Senior Policy Advisor, where she won the national award for innovation in higher education government relations. She was a National Associate for the National Center for Public Policy and Higher Education, and has served on several statewide governing boards including ones governing higher education institutions, financial aid policy, and policy areas impacting children and families.
Co-Host: Doug Lederman, Editor and Co-Founder, Inside Higher Ed
Doug Lederman is editor and co-founder of Inside Higher Ed. With Scott Jaschik, he leads the site's editorial operations, overseeing news content, opinion pieces, career advice, blogs and other features. Doug speaks widely about higher education, including on C-Span and National Public Radio and at meetings and on campuses around the country. His work has appeared in The New York Times and USA Today, among other publications. Doug was managing editor of The Chronicle of Higher Education from 1999 to 2003, after working at The Chronicle since 1986 in a variety of roles. He has won three National Awards for Education Reporting from the Education Writers Association, including one for a 2009 series of Inside Higher Ed articles on college rankings. He began his career as a news clerk at The New York Times. He grew up in Shaker Heights, Ohio, and graduated in 1984 from Princeton University. Doug and his wife, Kate Scharff, live in Bethesda, MD.
About Weekly Wisdom
Weekly Wisdom is an event series that happens live on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. It also becomes a podcast episode. Every week, we join forces with Inside Higher Ed and talk with a sitting college president or chancellor about how they're specifically navigating the challenges of this moment. These conversations will be filled with practicable things you can do right now by unpacking how and why college leaders are making decisions within higher education. Hopefully, these episodes will also leave you with a sense of optimism and a bit of inspiration.
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