Note: This interview in the Weekly Wisdom Series originally aired on January 30, 2023 as part of the University Innovation Alliance’s Innovating Together Podcast, appearing live on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. The transcript of this podcast episode is intended to serve as a guide to the entire conversation, and we encourage you to listen to this podcast episode. You can also access our summary, along with helpful links and audio from this episode.
Valerie Sheares Ashby:
It sounds selfish, but I tell people I mentor all the time and I say it to myself, it's not selfish. It's the biggest gift that I can give to every human is to take care of myself. So I put me on the calendar first, and I know what that means for me. I have a routine of a set of things. It's not a long list that I need to do every week for my own wellbeing. Now in this job, I have to move it around. I can't keep a regular schedule in the gym, but I'm going to get in the gym, that's for sure.
And then I have to say no. And actually, on my desk I have 20 ways to say no. And I send it to a lot of people, all gracious ways, because I want to say yes, but the fact is that I need a Sunday nap every Sunday, and I do it. The other part I would say is make sure the job is joy to you, because the work is just joy to me. I just went to a basketball game and it was joy to me to watch my students.
Bridget Burns:
Welcome to Innovating Together, a podcast produced by the University Innovation Alliance. This is a podcast for busy people in higher education who are looking for the best ideas, inspiration, and leaders that will help you improve student success. I'm your host, Bridget Burns. Each week I partner with a journalist to have a conversation with a sitting college president, chancellor, system leader, or someone in the broader ecosystem who's really an inspiring leader. And the goal is to have a conversation to distill their perspective and their insights gathered from their leadership journey. Our hope is that this is inspiring and gives you something to look forward to each week. This episode, my co-host is Inside Higher Ed co-founder and CEO Doug Lederman.
Doug Lederman:
And today's guest is Valerie Sheares Ashby, who is the president of the University of Maryland, Baltimore County. She took that job last fall, started that role last fall after having served as Dean at the Trinity College of Arts and Sciences at Duke University. So welcome, President Ashby.
Valerie Sheares Ashby:
Thank you so much.
Bridget Burns:
I wanted to just first start off by asking you the question about whether or not you have learned more from good examples of leadership or bad? I think that's something that's always very interesting because the answers span the gamut.
Valerie Sheares Ashby:
Sure. I love the question at the start. I'm going to go with good. For sure. I have learned more from good examples, and I've had many. I tell people everything you need to know about me, you can find out from the two people who raised me. Both of my parents were leaders in their own right, and I think I learned more from them than I've learned at any other point. But I have many other great mentors who are role models and examples. I certainly have learned some things from bad. Things you see and you say, "Okay, don't do that," or "That may not work for me." But somewhat positive. I learned from my parents about leadership, just their values, their courage. They were relationship people. They had a sense of humor. They didn't take themselves too seriously. They were always authentic, never avoided problems. I mean, I just learned so much from these people. And by the way, both were great fundraisers. I should throw that in.
Bridget Burns:
Super helpful.
Valerie Sheares Ashby:
Yeah, definitely good examples.
Bridget Burns:
Is there any one particular lesson that you find yourself drawing upon in the presidency at this moment that you would share with us?
Valerie Sheares Ashby:
Generally, what I would say is probably my central value around leadership is I always draw a triangle, and I say, "Turn it upside down, where the point is at the bottom and the base is up, the wide base is at the top," and I say, "If you're the leader, you're at the bottom." You are in service to everybody else who's in that organization, and never forgetting that is what I learned from my parents, but I've learned it from all of the leaders that I have watched that I admire. It is a privilege to be in leadership, and we are indeed in service to people. So when I was a department chair, I was in service to 50 people, and when I was a dean, I was in service to 700 people, many more students, and here I'm in service to thousands of students and all the faculty and staff, and the day that it doesn't feel like a privilege is the day I should quit. That's the core value, I think.
Doug Lederman:
I'm trying to think, Bridget, if others have answered the question about leadership with as much of a focus on parents, I can't think of people on here. I'm curious, were they purposely teaching you or were you just soaking up what they -- Okay. So they weren't prepping you to be a leader. They were just being parents.
Valerie Sheares Ashby:
Two things, as you posed the question differently the second time, so let me answer the first, because there's a little bit of nuance on that. They were just being themselves. My dad was a minister and a math and science teacher. That tells you a lot about how I lead. My mother was an English teacher and a leader everywhere she was. She saw something that was a need, she'd create it. She started a homeless shelter for men in the city of Raleigh and ran it for 30 years after she retired from teaching, and she did community college higher education. So they just were who they were. Now the second part of did they prepare us? They were preparing us for just whatever we were going to do. It wasn't necessarily with an eye towards leadership, but yeah, their examples were just tremendous.
Bridget Burns:
I want to just ask the obvious question that I think you get asked a lot, but I want to frame it very specifically, because I work with institutions around the country, and you are not the first or last leader who will come in after a long-serving and beloved president. So we've had this with multiple UIA leaders. I'm thinking about Ed Ray and John Hitt, and I think there's a lot of folks who look at these long-serving leaders, and they wonder about what kind of leadership style is best to come in next. And because you have the whole institution has gotten so familiar and used to one type of leader, I'm just curious about what advice you might be able to offer to someone who's looking at one of those positions that is currently occupied by a long-standing and beloved leader.
Valerie Sheares Ashby:
Yeah, no, I so appreciate the question. One, you might imagine that I have been asked some version of it many times. It's on people's minds, obviously. I think you want to choose whenever you're looking at these jobs. I think you have to look for your fit. I'd set aside just for a second how long the previous leader had been there. The more important thing is to find the job that you are supposed to be in. So, is it the right role? Is it the right institution? Do they have the right values, and are they ready to move forward in those values? If that is the case, then I think then the leadership piece, the long-serving leadership piece becomes less important. I will say that it was incredibly helpful that my predecessor Freeman Hrabowski really prepared the institution, I believe, for the change so that people have been incredibly welcoming and kind and ready to think about new ideas.
I think, personally, if I was talking to someone I mentor, I would say, "I need to make sure that you're comfortable in your own skin. I don't care what job you have. But you need to know who you are. And then you look for a place that wants who you are, and then you go and do the best you can, being who you are authentically." And I think that'll work. It'll be interesting. I'm only a few months in here. One of my mentors used to tease me. He said, "You hear about, you know" and he would tease me when I wanted to think about, "Do I do this differently?" He's like, "No, go as who you are. That's why they hired you, and you have to trust that process." So I'm excited, actually, to be in this particular role and with this institution that has accomplished so much in a short period of time, but is so ready to go forward.
Doug Lederman:
I'm curious if you have advice for leaders who might be on the way out and how they can make sure -- I mean you've kind of answered a little bit of with what you just said about Freeman, but are there steps that an outgoing leader can take to open the door and ready an institution for --? Or not, which is probably more of what we see, maybe.
Valerie Sheares Ashby:
I so appreciate that. So, having left various roles and come into different roles, personally, I would say I always want to pride myself on being a good leaver. That's really important. So I just left Duke University, that I loved and still love, have friends and colleagues and students. The day that I left, the next day, I was no longer going to be entangled in that institution and have not been. And as I am only supporting my leader, I don't allow anybody to talk to me about anything there. Hopefully every day was working to leave the place better than I found it so that it wasn't a rush at the end to try to clean it all up. I hope that I am a good leaver, have been a good leaver. That's a gift to the person who comes behind you. I have followed people who weren't good leavers.
That is not the case in Freeman's case. And actually he was so kind, really introduced me to people and welcomed me into this city and has helped make connections and then has left, hasn't been back on campus. That's fantastic. It's necessary, and I so appreciate his willingness to do that, because it's hard for people. As much as they think they want change, when the change actually comes, it's a big deal. And I keep telling people when I show up in a meeting and I have my voice instead of his, my presence instead of his, my personality instead of his, my way of thinking instead of his, it's a big deal after 30 years. And so for him to actually give me that moment and time and distance is a tremendous gift.
Bridget Burns:
That's pretty profound. No one's ever talked about that on our show. It just makes me think about the kinds of things that people can do to ensure that you're a good leaver, and people are always kind of thinking about when is the right time to leave and what are the conditions? And I just think that gives a lot of food for thought for folks to contemplate as they think about their roles in terms of how you ensure that the work is better regardless of you being there, but that you're not actually holding up the world. So I think that's really great.
I have a million other questions that has triggered, but I want to make sure we get to all the great stuff about you. So I do want to talk about just you as a leader in general. Are there any habits or practices that really ground you as a leader? Now I'm thinking about, for me, if I have a big keynote or something, I always go for a run or meditation, things like that. I have a hype playlist. I don't know if there's specific things that, for you, optimize you to lead during difficult times or to really set your kind of game face on.
Valerie Sheares Ashby:
No, I totally appreciate that. There's several things that came into my mind as you were talking. Let me start with the people who are in my life who just changed my life for the better. I have a leadership coach that I've had for years now, by the way, his name is John Baird, and he's extraordinary. He knows me like the back of his hand, and he was with me at Duke, and he's with me now, and there's nothing that I do that's important that we don't talk about it. It could be the smallest of things, but we talk through almost everything, and he knows my values, and he helps me to stay in those values as we lead.
I also have four mentors who have been with me for years, and there's probably not a month that I don't pick up the phone and talk to one of them about something. So that's been incredibly helpful in that sense of being prepared for whatever might arise. And then, just personally, I'm a huge person on self-care. What I say to people is that every meeting that I am in, that individual expects me to be at my very best. They don't care if they're the 15th meeting that I've had in that day, and they don't care if it's Thursday afternoon or Monday morning. They want my full and undivided attention. And for me to be at my best, I must take care of myself. And I do that weekly. So I don't wait for a break. I don't wait for spring break. That's too late. Every Monday, Monday's my favorite day of the week. My team has known this for years, because I have gotten my rest and done my routine over the weekend.
It's exercise for me. It's church, it's seeing my friends. I listen to music every morning when I get up. I'm listening to music until I walk into the office that is inspirational to me. It is a routine that every week I must keep that commitment to myself or I can't give my best to people. And you never know what's going to happen in these jobs. So you have to stay prepared and as healthy as possible, physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally, you name it.
Bridget Burns:
That's great. And that's permission to listen to music all the time.
Doug Lederman:
Well, yeah, a lot of presidents don't necessarily feel in control of their time. I don't know how much time is required to get yourself that self-care on the weekends, but I'm assuming that most presidents, you're desired, if not expected at sporting events and whatever else. I mean, all sorts of things. I don't know. How do you balance it? I'm fascinated to hear.
Valerie Sheares Ashby:
Well, let me tell you this. I may say something different a year from now. Okay, I'm four, five, six, seven months in. I started in August. People asked me that question when I went from being a chair to a dean with 50 people versus hundreds of people. And I did the same thing. And part of what I do is, it sounds selfish, but I tell people I mentor all the time and I say it to myself, it's not selfish. It's the biggest gift that I can give to every human is to take care of myself. So I put me on the calendar first, and I know what that means for me. I have a routine of a set of things. It's not a long list that I need to do every week for my own wellbeing. Now, in this job, I have to move it around. I can't keep a regular schedule in the gym, but I'm going to get in the gym, that's for sure.
And then I have to say no. And actually, on my desk I have 20 ways to say no. And I send it to a lot of people, all gracious ways, because I want to say yes, but the fact is that I need a Sunday nap every Sunday, and I do it. The other part I would say is make sure the job is joy to you, because the work is just joy to me. So, I just went to a basketball game, and it was joy to me to watch my students. Now, it's not rest, but it was joy.
Every now and then, I have to correct because I'll feel myself getting a little bit off of my routine. I do something very special on Fridays, and when that starts to slip, I have to go back and correct it. But I think that everybody is happier when I am not irritable and tired and hungry and all of the other things. That is my goal to try to maintain that here. These jobs will take every ounce of your life, which is the other part of this, is I tell people, "Make sure you have a whole life." As much as I love it, it is not my life. I have a whole life.
Bridget Burns:
Excellent advice for many people to really let soak in: boundaries. And also, by the way, it's extremely consistent with -- I remember the person who actually gave me advice similar to that before when I was in my ACE fellowship here was Freeman. And he said, he quizzed us all in the most important thing for a leader to do. And it was take care of yourself and your physical energy, or else nothing matters. We all expect it was going to be something like have a vision or get in their team. I appreciate that. Their similar perspective.
I want to know what has been most surprising to you about your career? I mean, it's been wild, here you are the president of this premier institution that's world renowned, and how surprising -- is this the biggest surprise, or is there an even bigger surprise?
Valerie Sheares Ashby:
No, this is it. So, I think my entire career is a surprise to me. This is why I love what I do. So, when students come into my office and they think that they should have their entire lives mapped from A to Z, I tell them my story that a year ago, literally, I can still say that, a year ago I had no idea I was going to want this job or have this job. I was happy in my previous job. So what has been a surprise to me is my entire career. And a part of that has been my mentors. They have seen in me what I could not see in myself. They have seen opportunities and helped me take risk. And any time I get comfortable, they say, "Okay, it's time to go." And I love my job.
Every job I've ever had has been my favorite job at the time, every one. And I had no idea I was going to have it. I didn't know I was going to chair the chemistry department at UNC. I mean, that's crazy to me. I was a student there. And then to be the dean at Duke is just ridiculous. What is this? And I loved that job, every bit of it. And then to be here, I mean, in a presidency, period, but here at this particular institution following this leader at this moment in time when inclusive excellence means so much to me and to the world, I had no idea a year ago. And so, my whole life has been that joyful set of surprises that mentoring has really led me into. So I'm a big mentoring fan, and I just encourage my students, don't close any door. You can't even imagine what's possible. That's fantastic advice.
Doug Lederman:
I want to broaden the lens again for a second. And you are now, again, leading this important institution at a time that is pretty distinctive. What kind of change do you think is most needed from higher education broadly at this moment? And how do you, as a leader, see yourself trying to help lead in that direction?
Valerie Sheares Ashby:
I've given you a hint at this by the institution that I've chosen and its values. For me right now, trying to really help define and move forward inclusive excellence is everything. It's not just because I am a person of color or a woman or a chemist. I think I check every box of things. It's not that reason. It is because we have so many challenges in this world that are going to need a diverse group of thinkers. And fundamentally, we know that the best solutions come from diverse perspectives. How in the world are we going to deal with climate change and energy and privacy and democracy and truth and health and health disparities if there isn't a diverse group of thinkers and experiences at the table? So I don't see how we solve some of these big human problems without having a representative of the humanity that we're trying to address at the table. And so, inclusive excellence means everything. So, we fundamentally believe that if you're excellent and you're not diverse, you're not as good as you think you are. You can't be. You cannot be. It's just not possible. So, imagine the excellence that we are leaving on the table by not being inclusive. That's one thing that matters deeply to me.
The other piece that matters deeply to me is just practical. Who is the population? I mean, we cannot have 10% of the people participating in a process of creation of knowledge. If 90% of the people are not those people, that's just not possible. And besides that, the solutions that they're creating are probably not relevant. So, when I think about the city of Baltimore in which I live, if you want to talk about the environment, I want some people of color at that table. This is what's most important to me now. And I tell people it's not a moral imperative. I do what I want to do morally for myself on the weekends. Monday through Friday, I'm at work, and it's just so happened that my values match this particular institution, but it's not a moral imperative. This is an excellence imperative. This is a --
How are we going to solve some of the hardest problems facing our society in the world? Who are we leaving out of that process? It's also who are we leaving out of economic prosperity and social mobility? And so, these are big deals to me. It's why I chose this institution that is grounded in this. If we've got the values, then we have to set an example. And so, there's a lot of work to do, not just in the world, but at my institution, there's a lot of work to do. I want my leadership team to reflect that diversity. I want my faculty to reflect that diversity. I want my staff to reflect that diversity. I want different research areas where you don't anticipate there being a lot of diversity, like in computer science, for example, or in economics. There are fields that are lucrative and game-changing for the world, and they are also the least diverse fields. That's our work. So it's an exciting moment to me, and I'm grateful to be at this institution that has already decided that these are its values.
Bridget Burns:
That's wonderful. I want to land the plane with our big three rapid-fire questions that our audience really appreciates from each speaker. And the first is the advice that someone gave you that -- We heard a little bit of it, but I think, has there been a piece of advice beyond what you've shared that has been most powerful in your career?
Valerie Sheares Ashby:
Yeah, so I always start with "Don't forget the privilege of the service." I guess the other advice is, I always tell people, "If you're talking about being in leadership, make sure you're working with your assets." And what I mean by that is that leadership is actually not for everybody. And it's not a deficit if it's not for you, but you've really got to know if it's for you, and then be authentic and walk in that gift that you have and just know it's a complex -- This is a business of people. I tell people, "I hope you love people if you're a leader, because it is required, too. I don't know how to lead people I don't love. That is also required." So that's some advice I'd give.
Bridget Burns:
All right. Well, that's helpful in terms of what you've received and also give, and I guess the other question is -- and again, you gave a little hint, maybe, if The 20 Ways to Say No is the book, but maybe you have a different one -- if there's a leadership or personal development book that has been most helpful in your career that you frequently recommend people read.
Valerie Sheares Ashby:
Yeah, I go to two, one a long time that I've gone to this one. It's a Patrick Lencioni book, The Advantage. You may have read it. It is so fabulous. It's written around business, but it's actually just a book on how are you an authentic human leader in any place. I used that book when I first went to Duke just to ground our strategy. And there's just some principles that are just so key in leadership. It's also a book on, it's really focused on healthy organizations, and that it's a beautiful thing. Second book real quickly, John Baird, Leading With Heart. So, my coach just wrote a book called Leading With Heart, and I love that. For folks who don't think you can actually be kind and compassionate and empathetic and still have courage and make hard decisions, this may be a book for you.
Bridget Burns:
Well, I love this, and you're getting wonderful feedback from folks about being comfortable in your own skin. Thanks, Chris, for the great comments from folks who are live. Again, reminding folks that this has all been live. We've loved having you on the show, and this has just been truly a delight for us to get to know you and spend some time with you. And we appreciate this time today. And for folks at home, we will see you next for next week's episode of Start the Week with Wisdom. But otherwise, we hope you have a wonderful day.
Bios of Guest and Co-Hosts
Guest: Valerie Sheares Ashby, President, University of Maryland, Baltimore County
Valerie Sheares Ashby began her tenure as president of University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) in August, 2022. She is the first woman to serve in this role. Dr. Sheares Ashby previously served as Dean of the Trinity College of Arts & Sciences at Duke University, which she joined in 2015 and led a 700-person faculty across nearly 40 departments and programs through the pandemic, consistently advancing diversity and inclusion to achieve excellence in teaching and research. Prior to this, from 2012 to 2015, she chaired the chemistry department at the University of North Carolina (UNC) at Chapel Hill, where she was instrumental in UNC’s collaboration with UMBC to launch the Chancellor’s Science Scholars Program. Dr. Sheares Ashby began her academic career at Iowa State University (ISU) as an assistant professor in 1996 and was promoted to associate professor in 2002, also mentoring ISU's Program for Women in Science & Engineering. As a researcher, she has focused on synthetic polymer chemistry, with an emphasis on designing and synthesizing materials for biomedical applications. She is the recipient of the National Science Foundation Career Development Award, DuPont Young Faculty Award, and 3M Young Faculty Award, among others. Dr. Sheares Ashby received her B.A. and Ph.D. in chemistry from UNC Chapel Hill and completed postdoctoral research at Universitat Mainz in Germany as a National Science Foundation Postdoctoral Fellow and NATO Postdoctoral Fellow.
Co-Host: Bridget Burns, CEO, University Innovation Alliance
Dr. Bridget Burns is the founder and CEO of the University Innovation Alliance (UIA). For the past decade, she has advised university presidents, system chancellors, and state and federal policy leaders on strategies to expand access to higher education, address costs, and promote completion for students of all backgrounds. The UIA was developed during Bridget’s tenure as an American Council on Education (A.C.E.) Fellowship at Arizona State University. She held multiple roles within the Oregon University System, including serving as Chief of Staff and Senior Policy Advisor, where she won the national award for innovation in higher education government relations. She was a National Associate for the National Center for Public Policy and Higher Education, and has served on several statewide governing boards including ones governing higher education institutions, financial aid policy, and policy areas impacting children and families.
Co-Host: Doug Lederman, Editor and Co-Founder, Inside Higher Ed
Doug Lederman is editor and co-founder of Inside Higher Ed. With Scott Jaschik, he leads the site's editorial operations, overseeing news content, opinion pieces, career advice, blogs and other features. Doug speaks widely about higher education, including on C-Span and National Public Radio and at meetings and on campuses around the country. His work has appeared in The New York Times and USA Today, among other publications. Doug was managing editor of The Chronicle of Higher Education from 1999 to 2003, after working at The Chronicle since 1986 in a variety of roles. He has won three National Awards for Education Reporting from the Education Writers Association, including one for a 2009 series of Inside Higher Ed articles on college rankings. He began his career as a news clerk at The New York Times. He grew up in Shaker Heights, Ohio, and graduated in 1984 from Princeton University. Doug and his wife, Kate Scharff, live in Bethesda, MD.
About Weekly Wisdom
Weekly Wisdom is an event series that happens live on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. It also becomes a podcast episode. Every week, we join forces with Inside Higher Ed and talk with a sitting college president or chancellor about how they're specifically navigating the challenges of this moment. These conversations will be filled with practicable things you can do right now by unpacking how and why college leaders are making decisions within higher education. Hopefully, these episodes will also leave you with a sense of optimism and a bit of inspiration.
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