Note: This interview in the Weekly Wisdom Series originally aired on December 12, 2022 as part of the University Innovation Alliance’s Innovating Together Podcast, appearing live on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. The transcript of this podcast episode is intended to serve as a guide to the entire conversation, and we encourage you to listen to this podcast episode. You can also access our summary, along with helpful links and audio from this episode.
Javier Reyes:
But I can tell you that there was, perhaps not a mandate, but there were so many projects in motion, this idea of my co-leading at that time, it's not something that was on the horizon. It's something that happened, perhaps, quickly, as you well put it. But we were doing the budget reassign, we're doing that complete reorganization and reimagination of our student enrollment service, retention services, student success units. We wanted to reimagine how we were sort of working with our Office of Access and Diversity, and academic affairs, and all the different components of what has been surrounding higher ed over the past two or three years. And I think that was the mandate. The mandate from the president as well as from other mentors that knew that I was considering being the interim.
Bridget Burns:
Welcome to Innovating Together, a podcast produced by the University Innovation Alliance. This is a podcast for busy people in higher education who are looking for the best ideas, inspiration, and leaders that will help you improve student success. I'm your host, Bridget Burns. Each week, I partner with a journalist to have a conversation with a sitting college president, chancellor, system leader, or someone in the broader ecosystem who's really an inspiring leader. And the goal is to have a conversation to distill their perspective and their insights gathered from their leadership journey. Our hope is that this is inspiring and gives you something to look forward to each week. This episode, my cohost is Inside Higher Ed co-founder and CEO, Doug Lederman.
Doug Lederman:
Today, we're joined by Javier Reyes, who's interim chancellor at the University of Illinois at Chicago. Been in that role since the summer. He had joined UIC as provost about a year earlier, and we're going to talk a little bit about the interim role and preparation for what might be ahead for him, and how higher ed should look at interim roles. So, Bridget, back to you.
Bridget Burns:
Welcome, Chancellor Reyes. So excited to get a chance to learn from you today. Thanks for being here.
Javier Reyes:
Oh, thank you for having me, Bridget, Doug. It's a pleasure to be with you and your audience, so I really appreciate it.
Bridget Burns:
So, you're in a really challenging position. It's an incredible opportunity, because you get a chance to try on the chancellor role, but I just want to roll the tape back on what Doug just said, that you've only been at UIC for about a year, in the midst of COVID, and then all of a sudden, you have to actually be the person leading. I would love for you to take us back to when you hear this news, and you had this opportunity, and it is an opportunity, but, I mean, I'm sure it's very overwhelming. How did you think about it at first?
Javier Reyes:
I think I have to, to be honest, Bridget, when I go back to that moment, it was definitely -- I could feel the ground shaking. It was definitely something that hit me hard, to say, I've been here six months. Chancellor Amiridis left for South Carolina, three months of trying to figure out what the president of the system was going to do, eventually decided that I could take an interim position. And at that time, I really thought this is going to be a team effort, right? This is going to be working with the cabinet, making sure that we are leading the university forward together. A national search was launched for the chancellorship, so it was definitely something that we know is going to be on a timeline. So, my idea at that moment was, we're going to be a strong team and we're going to be leading the university as a "we," not necessarily as an "I." So, that was the first approach. It was a little bit different.
Bridget Burns:
Yeah. Tell us a little bit about how that might've been surprising. Walk us through that.
Javier Reyes:
I think, I mean, as you know, the world keeps spinning as situations keep emerging, either in our facilities, but our students, with our faculty, with our budgets. And although we definitely have the discussions as a "we," eventually, a decision has to be made, and that decision has to be carried in the shoulders of the chancellor. And I quickly realized that I can have a lot of conversations, I can have a lot of input, but at the end of the day, the decision will be mine, and the responsibility of it will be on my office, will be on my shoulders. And that quickly changed from managing as a team, yes, but the decisions, at the end, do have to have one vision.
Doug Lederman:
What are the implications of that realization that you had and of that reality for collaboration among senior teams? I mean, I assume it doesn't make it a lie to talk about teamwork as a senior team, but it does, as you suggest, mean that, ultimately, one person has to rise above and be both the person to make the decision and the one to get a lot of the blowback. What does that say to you about how one, as a leader, collects information, opinions, et cetera, and what are the limits of that?
Javier Reyes:
Well, I think that the most important thing was to never close the door to hearing everybody else's opinion, providing that for conflicts. I mean, that was a commitment that I had with the team to really try to gather all the information. But then knowing that not everybody will agree, and that is the tricky part. How do you manage situations to make any collegiality in the team that might be in a temporary structure to not just disconnect, right? Just because you disagree with a couple of the things, how do you keep them all at the table?
And that was sort of a, I always set the ground rules with my teams that what happens in the meeting stays in the meeting. We lead as a group and we have one -- one decision is made, and we all get behind that. And I think the team, the cabinet, the vice chancellors have been very respectful of that approach, saying, yes, in the end, a decision will be made, but how we got to it, it stays within the room. And making sure that that's the case, because in a temporary team, if you lose that, then people can just disconnect and just wait you out in a way, and that would really, really make the university slow down and hurt the institution.
Bridget Burns:
So, I'm super curious that you've only been at UIC for one year, again, but you're also, it's right on the tail -- in the transition of COVID. So, I don't even know if you've been in-person much in fall of '21 enough to build trust, and rapport, and relationships, and kind of your eyes and ears as a leader on campus as provost. And then all of a sudden, you're forced into this very different reality, which, if I'm recalling correctly, Chancellor Amiridis, he announces his news in January, I think, of --
Javier Reyes:
Yes.
Bridget Burns:
-- so, you've been there six months and you hear this. Did you already feel like you had found a way to create your own kitchen cabinet? Or did you have to try and do that in the midst of everyone knowing you were about to take on this role? Like, just your own personal cabinet for advice, you know, the people you really trust.
Javier Reyes:
Well, I was forming my cabinet, and there were some structural changes that we wanted to do in the provost-level position with how we were aligning our student success initiatives and working with enrolling management. So, I was going through that, but I had taken the time to at least be present, perhaps not face-to-face, but really trying to be online with meeting with the faculty, meeting with other department chairs, meeting with the deans, meeting open venues with the faculty members and even the staff members.
So, I had the time being able to be in front of people. I don't know if I had had enough time to build trust, as one would like to have it, but I think that was the most important thing -- come January, one of the things that, irrespective of who was chancellor, who was provost, needed to move in the institution, based on my six months evaluation the semester before, and make sure that I had the time to move them forward.
That's when I said, when I was asked to be the interim chancellor, I immediately asked the president to allow me to get a provost colleague, Karen Colley, to become the interim provost. She had been the provost interim when they were doing the search for the provost. She had the trust, she had the knowledge base, she had the understanding, and I needed to make sure that I would reflect on the campus that I was going to have a provost that I could work with but that they could work with, as well. And that's how I started to solidify my position with the campus, of saying, "Let me bring someone that everybody trusts from both sides. I trust her, you trust her, she's going to keep us moving forward."
Doug Lederman:
So, apart from what you already mentioned about sort of realization of the singleness of being the decision-maker, what else has, if not surprised you, really struck you about the chancellorship, the role of the chancellor, compared to what you had done before?
Bridget Burns:
If you could just frame it -- I just want to add just one thing is, think about other provosts and what they don't understand about their boss' job. I think that this -- we don't give enough understanding of what it's really like, so, you're one of the few people who can understand that and go back to the other job. So, I'm just curious, if you were to coach other provosts, how would you describe the surprising elements in that framework?
Javier Reyes:
I would say that what I have learned is that the vice chancellors -- the other vice chancellor, and as you know, provosts are vice chancellors and vice presidents, as well. But the other vice president and vice chancellor had really large plates on their tables. And we don't realize, I didn't realize, how much of these academic affairs, and the student affairs, and their learning environment, the research environment, are actually on their plate as well to support, from our facilities, from administration, the vice chancellor for research, how much Dr. Gordon here understands and supports our deans, our faculty, and how can I be a provost that is actually more supportive of their efforts?
And I wanted to, as I go back to being the provost, I want to take one good practice with me, which is, I want to meet with the vice chancellors more often. I want to understand, from their perspective, how can I be helpful? I want to keep that momentum of conversation going, not because I was the chancellor, but because I am the provost and I know how, at the end of the day, we are all here for the students, our research, our community of services. But how can I make sure that their priorities, which, in many cases, will help fuel the outcome of the students, and our research, and the outreach, are actually well-aligned with what I think are my priorities, so that I can give them the first priority, in some cases, or sometimes really try to push for some that are complementary for the student affairs and the academic affairs.
So, that's what I would say, that I can be a much better provost now, after taking on this position, because I have gained some understanding, even of the chancellor. Chancellors, we always say, and I was one, I said, "Well, the chancellors are like the deans, and the provosts are like the associate deans." And it's true, in practice. The scope is a lot larger. It's a lot larger. And therefore, the demand, sometimes when a chancellor comes back to the campus and calls the dean, "Hey, help me with this," and the provost is like, "Why didn't you call me first? Why didn't you come ask me first?" It's the speed at which they have to respond to some, sometimes legislators, sometimes our alumni, sometimes our corporate partners, our community. It's sometimes not conducive of taking the whole academic approach in steps.
And I think I can be a much better partner with the next chancellor, because I know the demands that come under time, I know the requests that come from the outside, and I can help them channel it, and help my deans, as well as my vice provosts, be sometimes more responsive to what they see coming, and then close the loop with me as provost, but make sure that they are -- they understand that there's a sense of urgency that comes with the chancellor's office that, in many cases, is at a different speed than when it comes from the academic affairs side.
Doug Lederman:
Building off of what Bridget said before, you essentially got into a chancellor role, presumably, well before you expected to. What kinds of training or preparation should we be giving provosts who do, potentially, want to or could be good leaders of institutions that they maybe aren't getting now?
Javier Reyes:
I would say that one of the things that I would do, that I did as VP at some point, as vice provost as another, is perhaps give some of the team members a chance to shadow in some meetings, in some part of the job. These trips that I have done now as interim chancellor to go visit the congressional delegations, and sit in front of Representative Davis, and talk to him and his team, I think would be sometimes very beneficial to hear as provosts, as that perhaps, as other vice chancellors. I think sharing a little bit of the, "Come join me in this conversation," I think it's something that you see in other programs, that you can shadow a leader. And sometimes I do believe that if you come from other institutions, it's easier to understand that different institutions are different from each other. But being able to, as you have in some of the initiatives and programming, to be able to go and shadow another leader at that level, I think it's very valuable. I would be better prepared when something that happens in our campus gets the governor to call the campus, to call the president, and the president calls me and says, "[inaudible 00:13:54]," I would be better prepared to know what is the reaction time.
I would say another one, understanding the whole dynamics as -- as simple as different maintenance. Academic affairs is this incredible infrastructure, for research, our teaching. But then the different maintenance of the cost of it and how you manage it, not only when it comes to our classrooms and our labs, but also our dining facilities, our residence halls. If you have a hospital and a college of medicine, like we do, it adds an important dynamic and dimension to the job that it's hard to sometimes visualize it. And so, having more shadow the budget officer of the university, the CFO, sit down with the lawyers -- I mean, I've been in conversations that I would've never dreamed or perhaps sometimes wanted to be part of. So, having more of those programs that are like, "Go work with legal, go work with HR, go work with the budget," get outside of academic affairs, for provosts, I think, would be very, very helpful, perhaps for other vice chancellors, as well.
Bridget Burns:
I think that's really great. And especially as I think about -- I did an ACE Fellowship, it was a very profound experience, but not enough people get that opportunity, because it is expensive, and you have to be able to essentially walk away from your current job for a year. I hadn't thought about how we really, as a sector, need to push for more of that. Too often, in our careers, we are very self-referential, and we know what we know. And often, when we think about professional development and things like that, we think about what it does to the individual. You brought forward is, how much better a player for the team you will be, how much better you will be in the cabinet, more self-aware of things like the blind spots. I mean, one of the things that is the most profound experience you could have during an ACE Fellowship is if you can get to one of the big universities with a D1 sports team on game day and follow the security team around, the leader of the security --
Javier Reyes:
Yes.
Bridget Burns:
-- and being able to see just how complex of an incredibly intricate operation is happening, and nobody even knows about it, right? Like, little things like that that, again, are saved only for certain people who get that opportunity, but I think that's a really important point, that we would be a better sector, we'd be better colleagues, if we had more of this empathy-generating development.
Javier Reyes:
And I have to tell you, one of the things that -- and I think the provost positions and vice chancellor of academic affairs, many times will come from the faculty. So, your experience -- I mean, I'm an economist. I was never trained on HR matters. I was never trained on sometimes public relations matters, but I may have had good experiences first at Arkansas, then at West Virginia, now here, but that have allowed me -- but sometimes, you don't get to work on how the issue of that, and how you're going to do your [inaudible 00:16:45] as an institution, if you're an academic. So, these experiences, I think, would be very, very purposeful, to open the eyes of -- that's why you have to trust your vice chancellor. That's why you have to have a good relationship with them, because they're good at what they do, and they can help you understand it better. So, I think it's an important aspect of the, I would say, sometimes, the internship I'm going through, at the moment.
Bridget Burns:
Paid internship, but you've --
Javier Reyes:
Yes.
Bridget Burns:
-- definitely had difficult experiences and hard decisions.
Javier Reyes:
Yes.
Bridget Burns:
Doug, I was going to ask -- Javier, I don't know if you feel like you were given direction when you became interim. But I was just thinking we could zoom back out for people in the audience that -- by the way, Javier, you've already gotten good comments from friends in the audience. I just, this idea of, when you become an interim, do you feel like you were given marching orders of what the mandate of being an interim is? Because I think that it's just like, you know, hold the line, perhaps, or just keep things as they are. But depending on how your institution was left, you could be healing, it could be trying to move forward. I've seen interims at my own institutions that have actually been able to accelerate change during that period. So, I'm just curious, do you feel like there was a mandate given, or if there's one that you could clarify for people thinking about the role?
Doug Lederman:
And just one thing I would add. There are frequently times where the interim may be a candidate or is clearly not a candidate for -- and it seems like, in your situation, you were determined that you weren't going to be a candidate. Is that fair? Or --
Javier Reyes:
It was not completely determined --
Doug Lederman:
Okay.
Javier Reyes:
-- not at all, to the search.
Doug Lederman:
Got it.
Javier Reyes:
But I can tell you that there was, perhaps not a mandate, but there were so many projects in motion, this idea of my co-leading at that time, it's not something that was on the horizon. It's something that happened, perhaps, quickly, as you well put it. But we were doing a budget reassign, we are doing that complete reorganization and reimagination of our student enrollment services, retention services, student success units. We wanted to reimagine how we were sort of working with our Office of Access and Diversity, and academic affairs, and all the different components of what has been surrounding higher ed over the past two or three years.
And I think that was the mandate. The mandate from the president as well as from other mentors that knew that I was considering being the interim. They said, "If you're going to do this, don't be the interim. Be the chancellor. Your institutions need you to be a chancellor that will continue to make decisions." And that was, perhaps, the naïve part in me, inexperienced part of me said, "Well, yeah, we're going to do this as a 'we.'" At the end of the day, there was a decision to be made and I have to carry it. So the mandate was: don't stop. Continue forward. There's important issues that you serve as provost that were supported by the chancellor, but you have to support them, initiatives that chancellor may have started that have not been finalized, that you cannot just wait until the next chancellor comes along to keep them moving. It's just, 12 months will be an eternity, so, keep moving.
And that was something that I had heard from my mentors, I heard from President Killeen, I heard from Chancellor Amiridis. They say, be the chancellor. Don't be an interim. Make the decisions. And that was, I would say, the method.
Bridget Burns:
I love that --
Javier Reyes:
I did learn something that I would share with anyone who's considering being a president or a chancellor, when you ask, "Would this be something you'd do in the future?" I think there's definitely something that I would do in the future. But I now understand better how two or three chancellors, Chancellor Gearhart, back at Arkansas, a few years back, said in one of the leadership meetings that he would hold at the time, that he said, "Look, this is a lifetime. This is a lifestyle. This is a lifestyle that you have to have when you're a chancellor." The same thing was repeated by Michael Amiridis. The same thing is repeated now by President Killeen. And I didn't understand what they meant at the time. Now I do.
This job requires complete focus and attention for the institution. You're the first one that will sacrifice a vacation, a birthday. And you shouldn't, but sometimes you have to. Sometimes the demands require it. And it requires that you make this, going to your events, going to travel, meeting with the constituencies, being a voice for your campus, connecting with your faculty. It's not the job. It is a lifestyle.
Doug Lederman:
That's really well-said, and I think it's something that people in significant positions, really top positions, really, at a lot of organizations really feel. Do you think it has to be that way, and do you think that that's going to increasingly become something of a limiter for who is willing to step into those roles?
Javier Reyes:
The more we provide people access to what this lifestyle is, what this job entails, the more you will be having people that can come in completely knowing this is -- they want to immerse themselves and give themselves to it, right? The more we don't do this, then you may have more people that are like, "You know what? I mean, there's some things that I'm not willing to do." And sometimes the institution will demand 24 hours, seven days a week. Sometimes you'll be able to take time off. Don't get me wrong. I mean, you get time off. But there are times in which the tables change and crisis emerges, something happens on your campus, something happens to a faculty member, something happens to a student, the world keeps spinning, and you can't stop. You have to spin with it.
So, the more we give this perspective to people, that it has more than, you lead the institution, and you have to be the one that is there most, if not all, the time. It's important.
Bridget Burns:
It's 100% true. I just wish that there was more context, like that provided every year when The Chronicle releases the salary list, because there's such attack- looking at this position from an insular, one single perspective, which is the money paid. And I'm not out here saying, you know, everyone should be getting millions and millions of dollars. But I have seen the amount of sacrifice, and I do think that a little bit more context around -- This is often not just a person, but often there's also an unpaid, if there is a partner or spouse, there are massive expectations for that unpaid position. There are all kinds of challenges that don't ever see the light of day. It would just be helpful to have a little bit more nuance when we talk about the role.
Javier Reyes:
I wish that, sometimes the responsibility of that comes to the size of the institution. Like, I mean, if we could present the context of number of colleges, number of students, number of faculty, number of staff, budget size, it's small universities like UIC are like small cities. And there's definitely a responsibility that keeps you up at night, in many cases.
Bridget Burns:
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, we appreciate you being willing to make that sacrifice and your leadership.
I want to just shift to our last few rapid-fire questions. So, the first is: is the best advice that's like a touchstone for you that's helped you in your career, who gave it, and what was it?
Javier Reyes:
Well, it was given to me by Dan Worrell, who was the dean at the Walton College at the University of Arkansas. And when I became an associate dean, he said, "Make sure that you ask everyone in your teams, in your groups, if you're doing something wrong. When you're in a meeting, open yourself to ask them, 'Am I doing something wrong?'" Because if you don't lead by that example, that you can have constructive criticism given to you, then when you give it back, it will be understood that it is not a one-way street.
And he said that to do that, you have to put your listening ears on. When you ask that question, you really have to listen. And I think that has been a great advice that I have used, even today, when I meet with my staff, even as the chancellor, and the provost before, I would ask them, after a long meeting, "So, tell me something I'm doing wrong," in front of everyone, and opened myself to that criticism, the constructive feedback that's done in a professional, reacted in a professional way, and that really, then you act on it. And it starts creating a culture that it's okay to say -- when something's wrong, it's okay to say it. And that has been, I would say, the biggest advice that I have had, and I use it every day.
Bridget Burns:
I've learned something similar, and that is 100% true. And how you talk about it, in the future, as you're working on that thing, whatever it is, drawing back to, "And this is because so-and-so was generous enough to give me the feedback," because what people don't recognize sometimes is that feedback is the most generous and vulnerable thing that someone could do, especially if there's a power dynamic. Like, making sure that you're validating and you're constantly reminding people, "Hey, remember when I got this feedback? I'm working on this skill, see, because we're learning here. We're a learning organization. We're not afraid of failure. We're not assuming that we know everything." I think that's really powerful.
Is there advice that you give to people who are earlier in their careers that's different than that? Do you have anything else that you consistently find yourself referencing?
Javier Reyes:
Well, I always tell them to, when they're in meetings, not to listen only to the person that is talking, but also try to look at the person that's throwing that feedback. And I always tell my team to talk to each other about what they saw in that meeting. Sometimes we hear different things in a meeting, so, to check with others. When a meeting just happened, a project is ongoing, check with others. "Hey, I heard that I should be working on this," or, "I heard that this is where we're going. What did you hear?" Just to see if we are all on the same page, and we all have our own filters, and you tend to change the message. So, I always invite people to say, "Hey, write it down to see if we're all on the same page." So, that's a different advice that I give people.
Bridget Burns:
Is there one book that you find yourself recommending to people around leadership the most?
Javier Reyes:
The Speed of Trust. To me, that --
Bridget Burns:
That's my favorite! That's such a good one!
Javier Reyes:
Yeah, that's the one. And I think now there's a new one that has come out as well, that is Trust and Inspire. So, it just came out, so I want to read that one. But The Speed of Trust, and the other one that I, again, sometimes all these books [inaudible 00:27:22]. It's Your Ship, it's another one that I really, really, really, really enjoy by Captain Abrashoff about the best ship in the Navy and how they got to be the best ship in the Navy. It has a lot to do with The Speed of Trust, as well. So, those two have been my... the ones that I love, and I always compare new ones to those two, to see if I'm building on that.
Bridget Burns:
Ah. Well, we really appreciate you spending this time with us today. This has been really helpful, and now we have a new book to read. I'm just very excited to have gotten a chance to have this conversation about interims and how we support them. So, thank you, Chancellor Reyes, thank you, Doug, and we will see you all next week.
Bios of Guest and Co-Hosts
Guest: Javier Reyes, Interim Chancellor, University of Illinois Chicago
Dr. Javier Reyes assumed the role of Interim Chancellor at the University of Illinois Chicago (UIC) on July 1, 2022, following the departure of Chancellor Michael Amiridis for the presidency of the University of South Carolina. Dr. Reyes joined UIC in 2021 as Provost and Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs, the university’s chief academic officer to advise on matters of academic policy, strategic direction, enrollment management and academic resource planning. Dr. Reyes previously served as West Virginia University’s Milan Puskar Dean of the John Chambers College of Business and Economics from 2016-2021, and vice president for StartUp West Virginia from 2018-2021. He earned his bachelor’s degree in economics from the Instituto Tecnológico y de Estudios Superiores de Monterrey, Campus Estado de Mexico, in 1998, and his doctorate in economics from Texas A&M University in 2003. As UIC’s interim chancellor, Dr. Reyes heads Chicago’s largest university with 16 academic colleges and one of the nation’s largest medical schools. He reports directly to the president and the Board of Trustees, and oversees the provost and vice chancellor for academic affairs, the chief academic and budget office; the vice chancellor for health affairs, the main office for oversight and coordination of education, research and health care delivery among UIC’s seven health science colleges; as well as other vice chancellors and staff.
Co-Host: Bridget Burns, CEO, University Innovation Alliance
Dr. Bridget Burns is the founder and CEO of the University Innovation Alliance (UIA). For the past decade, she has advised university presidents, system chancellors, and state and federal policy leaders on strategies to expand access to higher education, address costs, and promote completion for students of all backgrounds. The UIA was developed during Bridget’s tenure as an American Council on Education (A.C.E.) Fellowship at Arizona State University. She held multiple roles within the Oregon University System, including serving as Chief of Staff and Senior Policy Advisor, where she won the national award for innovation in higher education government relations. She was a National Associate for the National Center for Public Policy and Higher Education, and has served on several statewide governing boards including ones governing higher education institutions, financial aid policy, and policy areas impacting children and families.
Co-Host: Doug Lederman, Editor and Co-Founder, Inside Higher Ed
Doug Lederman is editor and co-founder of Inside Higher Ed. With Scott Jaschik, he leads the site's editorial operations, overseeing news content, opinion pieces, career advice, blogs and other features. Doug speaks widely about higher education, including on C-Span and National Public Radio and at meetings and on campuses around the country. His work has appeared in The New York Times and USA Today, among other publications. Doug was managing editor of The Chronicle of Higher Education from 1999 to 2003, after working at The Chronicle since 1986 in a variety of roles. He has won three National Awards for Education Reporting from the Education Writers Association, including one for a 2009 series of Inside Higher Ed articles on college rankings. He began his career as a news clerk at The New York Times. He grew up in Shaker Heights, Ohio, and graduated in 1984 from Princeton University. Doug and his wife, Kate Scharff, live in Bethesda, MD.
About Weekly Wisdom
Weekly Wisdom is an event series that happens live on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. It also becomes a podcast episode. Every week, we join forces with Inside Higher Ed and talk with a sitting college president or chancellor about how they're specifically navigating the challenges of this moment. These conversations will be filled with practicable things you can do right now by unpacking how and why college leaders are making decisions within higher education. Hopefully, these episodes will also leave you with a sense of optimism and a bit of inspiration.
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